Kevin's Watch

Considering the siege of Revelstone described in the "The Power That Preserves", and given that HL Mhoram et. al. were able to hold the City, would the presence of 500 Bloodguard have made any difference? Except maybe as 500 extra mouths to feed?

The Bloodguard didn't sleep, hardly ever got tired, kicked serious butt in combat....yes, they would have made a huge difference. If nothing else, they would have given the human warriors more time to rest, something that became a serious issue as the siege continued. The Raver would never have been able to take the tower if the Bloodguard were guarding the city.

I really wanted to see Bannor in action as the First Mark, sigh.

Agreed. In addition, the loss of the Bloodguard was a major psychological blow. Their mere presence inspired confidence.

No difference at all.
They were doomed.

HLT is right.

If the Haruchai had not abandoned their vow and left, Foul would have found another way to neutralize them.

Agree with WF and HLT. The Haruchai were always very susceptible to coercion, and the Illearth Stone was put into use against the citizens of Revelstone in that manner. Imagine for a moment, nearly 500 Bloodguard under the control of Satansfist, inside the gates of Revelstone, wiping out every man, woman and child.

(Peter staggers back in amazement and sits down in order to compose himself.)"Heard my ears aright!", (thanks for the right words Rocksister) - The Bloodguard not make any difference!!!!! What fresh lunacy is this. Shame on you Wayfriend. Shame on you too HLT. And greatest shame of all on you Hyarmion - diabolical thought mongerer!I have stared into the foul heart of man and seen the black depths to which he will stoop; I have parlayed with those who Satan himself would fear to cross lest his rotten soul be turned but never, NEVER, have I come across such foul blaspemy, such low cogitation, such .......

There is no question in my mind that the Bloodguard would have made a difference in the scenerio described.
Unless by "difference" it is assumed that the ultimate outcome would have somehow changed in which case nothing and no one would have made any difference. SRD wrote the story with iron clad objectives that would have been satisfied regardless. Place 400 Haruchai wearing Iron Man armor, leveling repulsor blasts at the entirety of Foul's army and ultimately the story would have found a way to unfold with the same conclusion.

To suppose the the Haruchai could have fought effectively to defend Revelstone would be tantamount to Lord Foul being less competent than he was. And if he was, then Covenant would not have been needed, there would not be a story, etc. Haruchai defending Revelstone is just inconsistent with the whole series. Might as well say, what if the Lords had ICBMs?

Wow! I certainly stirred up a hornet's nest with this one, good.
Lord Tamarantha said it all "Revelstone will never fall. Not while the Bloodguard are with us, and the Giants and the Ranyhyn can come to our aid." There was the Despiser's whole strategy laid out (not that she would have realized that).
But Revelstone did not fall anyway, so maybe the Despiser was "less compentant" than he appeared to be.
Yes, I would like to have seen Bannor in action as First Mark. But to be perfectly honest I would really like just to meet him. I think of all characters I have encountered in fiction, Bannor is the one I would most like to meet.

At first, I could not believe anyone would think that the Bloodguard would not make a difference. However, as someone said before (i don't remember who, sorry), their mere presence gave the Lords and Revelstone confidence. So consider this, if the Bloodguard had been there, would Mhoram's distress and hopelessness have sunk low enough for him to discover the power he needed to meet Revelstone's need. Would the other Lord's, seeing how Mhoram was faltering, found the power within themselves to support him? The dismay of the Lords is necessary for them to combat it and then succeed.

Interesting point, dmMike7. So maybe, if the Bloodguard had kept their Vow and remained with the Lords, Satansfist would have succeeded in his attack of Revelstone, because Lord Mhoram would never have "...sunk low enough for him to discover the power he needed to meet Revelstone's need."?

So in effect, by manipulating the Bloodguard in such a way that they left the Lords, Foul ensured his own failure at Revelstone. I like it.

It's also a possibility that the Bloodguard could have got in the way.

If Bannor, who was First MArk at the time, and therefore would have been Mhoram's guard, was there during his Victory, would he even have allowed Mhroam to face the Raver?

Also whoever would have been guarding Callindrill, would not have allowed him to stay during the siege or Revelwood, and then his message may not have gotten the urgency it deserved.

Yes, interesting points. But maybe they wouldn't have gotten in the way. Remember in TWL, the Bloodguard with Verement didn't try to stop his attack on the Giant-Raver.

by manipulating the Bloodguard in such a way that they left the Lords, Foul ensured his own failure at Revelstone. I like it.

I like it too

The Bloodguard are tough, and Revelstone is a huge force multiplier, but we've seen that Bloodguard can die if they're outnumbered heavily enough. Eventually Revelstone would have run out of food and everyone inside starved to death, and at that point the Bloodguard would have eventually been beaten down if they remained in Revelstone.

Remember, Tamara and company had no idea of the sort of numbers that Foul could unleash.

Relayer, TWL no giant ravers. TIW the Bloodgaurd did nothing to stop the attack

But, back on to the topic, i agree that the Bloodgaurd would have been mainly symbolic in thier actions but would have been a hinderence to the lords in thier quest for power to unlock the krill.

Oops, thanks for the correction Thor. I meant TIW.
So many acronyms! ;-(

dlbpharmd wrote:Agree with WF and HLT. The Haruchai were always very susceptible to coercion, and the Illearth Stone was put into use against the citizens of Revelstone in that manner. Imagine for a moment, nearly 500 Bloodguard under the control of Satansfist, inside the gates of Revelstone, wiping out every man, woman and child.

I am currently re-reading White Gold Wielder and just got past the part where Gibbon-Raver possessed a handful of Haruchai when the party was nearing Revelstone. They nearly wiped out eveyone. I can't imagine 500 possessed Bloodguard!

Plus, the resignation of the Bloodguard was a great plot device by SRD. It really made the situation dire when TC returned to the land in TPTP and found the Land bereft of the Vow.

Relayer wrote:Agreed. In addition, the loss of the Bloodguard was a major psychological blow. Their mere presence inspired confidence.

Umm, didn't Covenant imply that their mere presence actually undercut people's confidence to the point that one of them desecrated the Land to "be worthy of them"?
I think I read that somewhere.

Yea, but I think that's more a statement of Covenant's profound cynicism than it is a description of how anyone else felt about them.