Kevin's Watch

From the Dissecting the Land: TIW section:

Fist and Faith wrote:

Dromond wrote:Mhoram sends a message to Lord Callindrill, bespeaking the need for more time.

One of my favorite moments in all TCTC. Revelwood spends how much time coming up with this way of communicating over distances. Not just anyone can do it, and you need lomillialor. Yet, despite the fact that the lorewardens didn't come up with it despite much research, with no experience in it, with no plan, Mhoram sends the message to Callindrill, who does not have lomillialor. The kind of thing that leads Foamfollower to say, "The son of Variol is a man of many resources. Much that may appear impossible is possible for him."

Have to say, my least favourite moment in all TIW. All that time and Lore goes into fashioning these Lomillialor rods so that they can communicate across distances between those carrying them and then, out of nowhere, Mhoram decides he can just contact any Lord even if they don't have one themselves. It just seemed like a bit of a cop out in terms of story consistency to me.

Am I missing something else significant?

I think that though Mhoram can do this, it takes a lot of energy... it's pretty inefficient. As a result, Mhoram, possibly the strongest Lord at the time, might be able to do it every once in a while, but that's it. I can't see any of the other Lords being able to do this without withering away, so it'd just be a one way communication. The rods allows more people to communicate across long distances.

When I read it, though it just comes across as sloppy plot development and we all know that SRD does not do sloppy when it comes to the plot!

It may just come down to the point already made about him being more capable than the other Lords, but I can't help thinking that something this out of kilter with what has gone before must be more significant than that?

Asuraka, the Staff-Elder at Revelwood, said to the Lord's that anyone with enough knowledge of Earthpower could use the lomillialor rod. Triock was able to summon Covenant to the Land with it, after he had spent some time at the Loresraat.

On Kevin's Watch, Lord Mhoram tied the rod to his staff which had belonged to his father, Variol, a former High Lord. I suppose Lord Mhoram was able to communicate with another Lord through their staff, like another form of mind-melding.

Do you think it would make any differance to the story wether the rod was tied to the staff horizontally or vertically? I wonder!

I have always felt as though this was a natural "projection" of their mind melding abilities over a long distance with some help from the lomillialor...

Barnetto wrote:From the Dissecting the Land: TIW section:

Fist and Faith wrote:

Dromond wrote:Mhoram sends a message to Lord Callindrill, bespeaking the need for more time.

One of my favorite moments in all TCTC. Revelwood spends how much time coming up with this way of communicating over distances. Not just anyone can do it, and you need lomillialor. Yet, despite the fact that the lorewardens didn't come up with it despite much research, with no experience in it, with no plan, Mhoram sends the message to Callindrill, who does not have lomillialor. The kind of thing that leads Foamfollower to say, "The son of Variol is a man of many resources. Much that may appear impossible is possible for him."

Have to say, my least favourite moment in all TIW. All that time and Lore goes into fashioning these Lomillialor rods so that they can communicate across distances between those carrying them and then, out of nowhere, Mhoram decides he can just contact any Lord even if they don't have one themselves. It just seemed like a bit of a cop out in terms of story consistency to me.

Am I missing something else significant?

I think it has to do with how much a person can take or give... Mhoram after understanding how the Lomillialor communication works was able to do it with much energy expenditure from Lomillialor to Callendrils Lords Staff, Mhoram was so Exhausted to the point of having to be carried down Kevins watch afterwards, shows how much more energy it took having only one Rod on his own end... had Callendril not held a lords staff it probably would not have been possible, but as Rdhopeca mentions they also had the ability to Mind Meld...and with help of the lomillialor possibly acted as an Antenna. If Mhoram had been trying to contact Elena now..that would probably have worked alot easier because she held the Staff of Law created from the same type of wood that the lomillialor were created from..not from the one tree itself however but an offspring of the same type of tree from what i recall.

If you read the text closely, it says that "messages may be spoken and heard through lomillialor". It doesn't state anything about one rod being needed at each ends of the conversation. We, who use telephones, may be reading something into the situation that isn't really there.

Mhoram, atop Kevin's Watch, used a lomillialor rod. Messages were spoken through it, and heard through it. There's nothing contradictory I can see. Just because Callindril didn't have the rod with him, doesn't mean he did not speak and hear through the one Mhoram had.

There is also an interesting exchange between Mhoram and Troy. Mhoram tells Troy where the rods will be used. Troy is shocked that only one is being taken into battle. Then he wants to know, what else haven't you told me, Mhoram? And Mhoram is interrupted before he can answer.

It may very well be that the Lord's decision to use them where they did was based on the premise that it didn't take two rods to communicate.

Then later, atop Kevin's Watch, it is Troy who asks, can you reach them? Sure, he admits that they don't have any lomillialor. But it is Troy who first suspects that Mhoram can communicate with them anyway.

So I think this is all intentional on Donaldson's part. I think he used some slight of hand to misdirect us about lomillialor. And then used this to highlight Mhoram's strength.

Do we know what the Lord's Staffs are made out of?

"With the Hirebrands and two students, Staff-Elder Asuraka learned that messages may be spoken and heard through lomillialor, the High Wood of the lillianrill. The task is difficult, and requires strength - but it will not surpass any Lord accustomed to the Earthpower."

It either means you can speak or hear through lomillialor, or it's needed on both ends. I believe they thought it was needed on both ends.

"You're going to have to do it. There's no other way. But first you've got to get through to Callindrill or Verement."

Lord Mhoram's piercing gaze probed Troy. Then Mhoram helped the Warmark to his feet. Quietly, the Lord asked, "Do Callindrill and Verement live?"

"Yes. I saw their fire. Can you reach them? They don't have any of the High Wood."

Mhoram smiled grimly. "What message shall I give?"

Troy seems to agree with me. Heh. Thing is, they didn't have Mhoram with them when they came up with the lore. If he was there, they probably would have realized it wasn't needed on both ends. But he wasn't there, so nobody knew until he did it. He is not just stronger, he is wiser, smarter, more intuitive. He is a seer, eh? He understands possibilities better than others. He follows pathways more easily than others.

The reason this is NOT a sloppy plot development is because SRD was showing us another hint of Mhoram's greatness. So when he discovered the secret of the RoD, we wouldn't be, like, "Huh? How'd he do that? Shouldn't you need to be more than your average Lord to be able to come up with that kind of insight/understanding?" But we knew very well by then that Mhoram was not your average Lord.

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:Do we know what the Lord's Staffs are made out of?

I always assumed they were either made from the offspring trees of the One tree...or Gilden.. then again not much is written about the difference... could be the one tree is a giant gilden, but i dont think so.

Good points too about the possibility of only needing one Lillianrill rod. that could be the reason two were recommended, with only one you would need two days of rest just to say "HI bad news, huge army GTFO quick."

Fist and Faith wrote:Troy seems to agree with me.

Yes, he does seem to initially think that two are required. Hence, his shock at discovering where the Lords will bring the rods. I think that in this way Donaldson intentionally misleads us. And also when Mhoram says, "One went to Lord's Keep, and one stayed in Revelwood, so that the Loresraat and Revelstone could act together to defend themselves." Which seems to, but doesn't actually, support this conclusion.

Then, as I said above, there seems to be a conspicuous interruption where Mhoram has a chance to explain that it might not work the way Troy thinks it does.

Fist and Faith wrote:The reason this is NOT a sloppy plot development is because SRD was showing us another hint of Mhoram's greatness.

Definitely. But I think the set-up includes that little bit of misdirection.

Mhoram wasn't the only one capable of it though, the Unfettered One was able to nearly reach Mhoram and probably would have succeeded if he hadn't been interrupted.

It requires power, but I think it needs understanding of Earthpower even more.

Good point he just needs to know somthing about Mhorm who his parents wer

Good point about the Unfettered one also (potentially) using an unpartnered lomillialor.

"With the Hirebrands and two students, Staff-Elder Asuraka learned that messages may be spoken and heard through lomillialor, the High Wood of the lillianrill. The task is difficult, and requires strength - but it will not surpass any Lord accustomed to the Earthpower."

I think this more or less states that if you are using the lomillialor you can send and receive messages.

Troy was afraid that the Lord had damaged himself. But Mhoram only suffered from a sudden exhaustion - the price of his exertion. All his movements were weak, unsteady, and his face dripped with sweat, but he managed a faint smile for Troy. "I would not care to be Callendrill's foe," he said wanly. " He is strong, he sends riders to Amorine." ~ The Illearth War, Doom's Retreat

We know that Callindrill does not have lomillialor, so this verifies that this is a single unit form of communication. As long as one of them has the rod, they can speak, and this one sided mode is draining on the sender. The question remains, can you use rods at both ends?

"Mhoram," he murmured through the pauses in his song. "Mhoram, Son of Variol and Tamarantha. Open your heart to hear me." ~ the Unfettered One, The Power that Preserves, Message to Revelstone

I think we can assume that the Unfettered One did not think that Mhoram carried the rod around in his pocket, and he seems to believe he can succeed in the sending, even though we have no proof that he could have succeeded. This somewhat verifies that only one rod is necessary. It also reinforces that it does not require a Lord to communicate this way. I think this means that the Lords' melding has nothing to do with this. After all, Lords did not invent the technique. And it also show that varying forms of channeling Earthpower can be used.

In her (Amatin) hands she held the lomillialor communication rod which the Loresraat had given to Revelstone seven years ago.
later:
Mhoram understood instantly that she was receiving a message from whomever it was that held the other communication rod, the one at Revelwood. ~ The Power that Preserves, Variol-son

This says a bunch! It is possible to communicate rod-to-rod, and when doing so it is not necessary for Amatin to use her staff, as Mhoram was required at Kevin's Watch. Also, this form of communication is exhausting, but not so much as the single rod mode.

So my conclusion is:

1. It is possible to send and receive communication with only a single rod.
2. Communication is easier when using rods at either end of the message.
3. Using communication rods is draining, but less so in the two rod mode.
4. It does not require a Lord to use the rods, just a devotee to Earthpower.

Also, if two rods were necessary for communication, imagine how complicated it would be... Since the lomillialor rods don't "ring" or "buzz" when a message is coming, you couldn't just put it somewhere on a desk nearby and know a message is coming; even if you only had to have it on your person, a Lord would need to always carry it with him or her (at all times!) just on the off-chance a message might arrive.

No, you'd have to have someone always holding each rod, because you'd never know when someone else might try to contact you. Now, since using the rod requires knowledge of Earthpower, you obviously couldn't just have soldiers taking shifts holding the lomillialor; it follows that you'd need to keep at least two or three people able to work with Earthpower on hand to keep an eye on the rod (so that if an urgent message suddenly arrives, there's someone to take it), and such people - who are rare enough already - could not then be used for other tasks.

Therefore, from a practical point of view it makes more sense to speculate it only takes one lomillialor rod to send and receive messages, at least in my opinion.

Just wanted to say:

Great topic and question asked by the OP (Barnetto)!

Xar wrote:...Since the lomillialor rods don't "ring" or "buzz" when a message is coming...

Maybe it had a really cool tree ring tone.

Lord Mhoram must have had some cool apps for his lomillialor rod. Also, when he was first testing them out, he walked progressively farther and farther away from Revelstone, repeatedly asking "Can you hear me now?"

Who's to say that Mhoram didn't communicate with Elena from Kevin's Watch. Why would Elena tell Covenant what was happening with the war! She had other priorities.

She did carve her marrowmeld sculpture of Covenant to resemble Bannor. This we know because Mhoram consulted Ahanna about it - of which she said was a masterpiece.
So there is a definite link between mind-melding, the Bloodgaurd, the Staff of Law, lomillialor, and dare I say it, the Third Ward - (knowledge gained from the Second Ward by the loremasters at Revelwood).

Which leaves me wondering what the exchange was, between Mhoram and Elena !

Mhoram was really bustin' his brains over the marrowmeld sculpture, untill he unravelled the secret to the RoD.
Bear with me...
When Mhoram helped Covenant to understand why the ground was giving him horrendous stings through his boots (in Lord Foul's Bane) Covenant held hands with Mhoram, and consequentially, saw his face reflected in Mhoram's eyes...do you see where this is going? cos I don't