Kevin's Watch

It occurred to me that maybe it will turn out that there is only one staff of law- that the staff Linden made will have to be taken back in time for Berek to obtain. There are lots of reasons why this might well not be right- but you never know!

It's possible.
It's also possible that Linden's Staff might be what's needed to put the Worm back to sleep.
Perhaps she needs to put hers back where Berek originally cut his from.

It would make it all come full circle.

I feel it's unlikely...but it did have runes added to make it look more like the old [and function so, it is implied]...maybe something will be done about it's...what did he say? "Unfortunate color?" to make it even more so...
but I don't think the ending is going to circle back, I suspect the old world will be gone and a new/better will start. [pure speculation, of course].

High Lord Tolkien wrote:It's possible.
It's also possible that Linden's Staff might be what's needed to put the Worm back to sleep.
Perhaps she needs to put hers back where Berek originally cut his from.

It would make it all come full circle.

That's an interesting thought I haven't seen elsewhere. (or at least I don't remember it...)

Sim, welcome to the Watch! If you poke around you'll find some other threads discussing this point about one or two staffs...

Relayer wrote:

High Lord Tolkien wrote:It's possible.
It's also possible that Linden's Staff might be what's needed to put the Worm back to sleep.
Perhaps she needs to put hers back where Berek originally cut his from.

It would make it all come full circle.

That's an interesting thought I haven't seen elsewhere. (or at least I don't remember it...)

Sim, welcome to the Watch! If you poke around you'll find some other threads discussing this point about one or two staffs...

Thanks Relayer. Where are the staff/staffs threads?

There are some problems to this theory, most significantly the facts that Linden's Staff is black and was made from Vain and Findail, and that Berek's Staff is brown and was cut from the One Tree.

The only way I could see Linden's Staff turning out to be Berek's Staff is if Linden travels back in time, then plants her Staff in the ground and uses Earthpower or something to make it take root and grow. Eventually its roots reach down deep enough to tap the energies of the Worm of the World's End, and the Staff grows into the One Tree itself, from which Berek will eventually take a branch with which to fashion his Staff...

It would also be neat if Linden left the heels somewhere nearby for Berek to find, or entrusted them to the Theomach or something, so that he could give them to Berek; that way, the heels would form part of a stable time-loop in which their age is infinite...

High Lord Tolkien wrote: It's also possible that Linden's Staff might be what's needed to put the Worm back to sleep.

Thwack him on the head with it.

Works with my kids... oh wait...

Vraith wrote: but I don't think the ending is going to circle back, I suspect the old world will be gone and a new/better will start. [pure speculation, of course].

I hope not... if the ending turns out like you say, then it will have been a carbon copy of the last "Chronicles of Narnia" - IIRC that is what happened to Narnia at the very end.

I also wonder about the Staff of Law being black - however, the color was caused by it being burned, remember?

MrKABC wrote:

Vraith wrote: but I don't think the ending is going to circle back, I suspect the old world will be gone and a new/better will start. [pure speculation, of course].

I hope not... if the ending turns out like you say, then it will have been a carbon copy of the last "Chronicles of Narnia" - IIRC that is what happened to Narnia at the very end.

I also wonder about the Staff of Law being black - however, the color was caused by it being burned, remember?

I didn't mean "better" in quite that way, as a sort of heaven analog.
I mean more along the lines of Law restored, and a place where, if there is evil, or corruption, it is ordinary evil and corruption: Done by people too weak or power hungry to be good, where if murder is done, it's the murderer's fault/shortcoming, not being possessed by a Raver; the absence of Immortal Powers that don't belong there and interfere with everything. A place where Glory and Beauty [and Damnation and Destruction] are built/created by the will and actions of those who belong there.

Vraith wrote:

MrKABC wrote:

Vraith wrote: but I don't think the ending is going to circle back, I suspect the old world will be gone and a new/better will start. [pure speculation, of course].

I hope not... if the ending turns out like you say, then it will have been a carbon copy of the last "Chronicles of Narnia" - IIRC that is what happened to Narnia at the very end.

I also wonder about the Staff of Law being black - however, the color was caused by it being burned, remember?

I didn't mean "better" in quite that way, as a sort of heaven analog.
I mean more along the lines of Law restored, and a place where, if there is evil, or corruption, it is ordinary evil and corruption: Done by people too weak or power hungry to be good, where if murder is done, it's the murderer's fault/shortcoming, not being possessed by a Raver; the absence of Immortal Powers that don't belong there and interfere with everything. A place where Glory and Beauty [and Damnation and Destruction] are built/created by the will and actions of those who belong there.

OIC, you want another "real" world Earth.

Except with all the cool stuff left in...

If you leave the cool stuff in then you must have the cool stuff destroying stuff too. It's the balance.

Simanent wrote:If you leave the cool stuff in then you must have the cool stuff destroying stuff too. It's the balance.

Works for me...the whole problem is LF is way too cool for the world, and unbalancing.

[oh, and there are 2 staffs...no merging, no seeding, no circling, nifty ideas some of them, but betting money this series isn't a Dark Tower parallel ending.]

Vraith wrote:

Simanent wrote:If you leave the cool stuff in then you must have the cool stuff destroying stuff too. It's the balance.

Works for me...the whole problem is LF is way too cool for the world, and unbalancing.

[oh, and there are 2 staffs...no merging, no seeding, no circling, nifty ideas some of them, but betting money this series isn't a Dark Tower parallel ending.]

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Bal ... oodAndEvil

This is a very common Fantasy-genre trope. It's a way of explaining away various others...
Basically, Good and Evil are unionized, and have rules they must follow. These rules are usually towards overall self-preservation; no one side is allowed to "win" too much...

Quote:
This is a very common Fantasy-genre trope. It's a way of explaining away various others...
Basically, Good and Evil are unionized, and have rules they must follow. These rules are usually towards overall self-preservation; no one side is allowed to "win" too much...

The point of interest is how these rules are enforced. SRD is brilliant at showing how good people are destroyed by their overlooked failings and so aid evil in the end, but he has not gone into the same depth when it comes to showing how evil defeats itself. Admittedly, LF keeps losing, and in a way it's his own fault (he chose TC to be summoned for a start) but we don't get LF's perspective on events. I'm hoping that's going to change.

Simanent wrote:Quote:
This is a very common Fantasy-genre trope. It's a way of explaining away various others...
Basically, Good and Evil are unionized, and have rules they must follow. These rules are usually towards overall self-preservation; no one side is allowed to "win" too much...

The point of interest is how these rules are enforced. SRD is brilliant at showing how good people are destroyed by their overlooked failings and so aid evil in the end, but he has not gone into the same depth when it comes to showing how evil defeats itself. Admittedly, LF keeps losing, and in a way it's his own fault (he chose TC to be summoned for a start) but we don't get LF's perspective on events. I'm hoping that's going to change.

There seems to be a rumor going around the Watch that Foul chose Covenant. Yet nothing in the text indicates this. Drool Rockworm was searching for white gold beyond Time. We don't know if it was bad luck that he found Covenant first rather some a$$whole who would betray the good guys and then make himself king of the Earth with his ring. Or perhaps the man in the ochre robes somehow manipulated Drool's vision so that it centered on Covenant. We don't know.

The rumor is based on a quote from the GI.

I haven't looked to see if this was ever actually in the GI of course.

I guess it depends on whether or not you regard Foul or Creator as literal beings and not merely elements of Covenant himself.

I was explicitly thinking of the Creator, the Despiser, and wild magic as aspects of Covenant himself. And the part of himself which he denies--wild magic, his own personal power to assign meaning to his life and experiences--is the part which must mediate his internal conflicts (the struggle between the creative and destructive sides of his nature). Hence the thematic development from the first to the second "Chronicles."

In this interpretation, Covenant chose himself.

Well, what I ask is, why do we not get a story about how TC's destructive side struggles to accomadate his creative side?

Simanent wrote:Well, what I ask is, why do we not get a story about how TC's destructive side struggles to accomadate his creative side?

We do: "Don't touch me!"
[destruction just doesn't play well with others
]