Kevin's Watch

It seemed to me that it was rather odd for Korik to pick up the fragment of the Illearth Stone and decide to take it to Revelstone.

Perhaps it was not odd that he picked it up. I remember that one of the Bloodguard picked up one of the Ramen's garroting cords and snapped it, as if to say, "see how useless weapons are?" So perhaps Korik thought he would crush the stone in his mighty Haruchai grasp or something. But when he picked it up and started gushing to all the other Bloodguard about how awesome it was, shouldn't someone have snapped his neck or something?

On top of that, Korik and two other Bloodguard intended to deliver the stone to Revelstone, but they sent other Bloodguard ahead of them to Revelstone. Why not all go together? Was he already Corrupted at that point?

Going along these trains of thought, it makes me think about the Haruchai mental communication. If Korik was Corrupted upon contact with the Illearth Stone, perhaps he became viral and could infect the other Bloodgurad through telepathy. Perhaps that is why no one broke his neck. Perhaps Korik's trio had planned to go fight Foul from the beginning.

And furthermore, they got PUNK'd by that Raver. Kinslaughterer had already accomplished his mission of genocide. I believe that he dropped the Stone on purpose to Corrupt the Bloodguard. I think the Corruption of the Bloodguard was part of Foul's plan all along.

Spoiler

Perhaps even the whole debacle of the Masters of the Land had been planned by Foul?

This was muchly discussed in these threads.

"It cannot now be set aside, nor passed on" Part 1

"It cannot now be set aside, nor passed on" Part 2

way, without me clicking, are those threads not a separate fan-fiction story?
or has it segued in to discussion threads?

They are fan fiction, but which have generated some discussion, discussion on this very topic. As the fan fiction involved is, in a sense, a discussion of this very topic.

OK
I haven't been in the threads in awhile, so had no idea discussion had occurred there.
Thanks!

wayfriend wrote: I always thought that the story of the three Bloodguard marching to Foul's Creche to take out Foul was incongruous with the rest of what we know about the Haruchai....

Second, the Haruchai are rather resistent to these sorts of things. They are resistant to the Sunbane, to Kasreyn's geas, and other things. They are probably, like Giant's, immune to possession by Ravers. So it doesn't fit that they would be altered by the presence of the Illearth Stone.

Just on the point you make regarding giants and Ravers, is it that they can't be possessed by a Raver acting alone? Obviously the three Giant Ravers were Giants possessed by Ravers, but only through the additional use of the Illearth Stone. And with Honninscrave the position would have been that he allowed himself to be possessed to prevent the Raver possessing Nom?

Barnetto wrote:Just on the point you make regarding giants and Ravers, is it that they can't be possessed by a Raver acting alone? Obviously the three Giant Ravers were Giants possessed by Ravers, but only through the additional use of the Illearth Stone. And with Honninscrave the position would have been that he allowed himself to be possessed to prevent the Raver possessing Nom?

It was expressed as the opinion of the Lords, not as a fact, that a Raver on his own was insufficient to possess a Giant.

With Honninscrave, we have the option of believing he willed it; or that he was sufficiently psychologically weakened at that point due to despair; or that the Banefire-enabled rukh was as good as the fragment of the Stone; or that Ravers in that later age were stronger; or something else.

The Bloodguard couldn't very well leave something like that lying around for someone else to mess with. Very dangerous, eh? But there was nothing the Haruchai could do with or about it. They know no lore, yadda yadda. So they figured they'd take it to Revelstone, and let the Lords deal with it. (I guess another option could have been to station a few Bloodguard there to guard it. Forever.)

But after they touched it, Foul had them. He slowly corrupted them. He made them think they should go to Foul's Creche to defeat him in person. Something the Bloodguard had always wanted to do, so it was not difficult to make them think it was their own idea. It didn't feel like there was any outside influence at work.

This is why the Haruchai call him Corruption, not Mr Grumpy-Pants.

Fist and Faith wrote:The Bloodguard couldn't very well leave something like that lying around for someone else to mess with. Very dangerous, eh?

Good point. I didn't think about that.

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:This is why the Haruchai call him Corruption, not Mr Grumpy-Pants.

Well they could have called him Mr Grumpy Pants when TC shrunk him down to a baby in TPTP - in fact I bet they did. Those Haruchai have got a bit of Nanny McPhee about them if you look closely.

Why did they pick it up?
Nothing else to do in Coercri on a Sunday night, actually. Blue laws. Dead population. Makes for a boring mix.
"What do you want to do tonight, Korik?"
I don't know, what do you want to do tonight?"
Hey, shiny green thing!

wayfriend wrote:This was muchly discussed in these threads.

"It cannot now be set aside, nor passed on" Part 1

"It cannot now be set aside, nor passed on" Part 2

Thanks WF for the link provided.

Yes, the FanFic does address this question, it was why it was written.

My Feelings are that Korik, Sill and Doar's fate was sealed prior to them leaving Revelstone. Foul had it all figured out.

KinSlaughterer could have could have left Coercri after wreaking havoc and destruction on most of the population, but that wasn't the plan. Even after killing the last Giant, he leaves the Haruchai and Lord Hyrim to summon a bayomo that will utterly destroy any remnant of Coercri left. Why didnt he kill them after he knocked them silly?

Foul knew that the Giants and The Haruchai were great allies of the Lords and wanted to destroy them -- by destroying the very fidelity of the Giants and and desecrating the Vow of the Bloodguards, he could do this more completely than just killing them.

Foul knew Revelstone would send a mission of Haruchai after the previous ones failed. He knew they would be drivien into despair by the loss of the Giants. And then there is the Fragment.

What coudl they do? They could not let Kinslaughterer keep it, and so they killed him. They could not leave it there or hide it, because it was powerful and could not remain hidden for long, and then who knows who would pick it up and use it, become corrupted by it.

They also could not return to Revelstone. The Rahyhyn, being pure Earthpower, had a very hard time even being in LifeSwallower because of the taint and corruption. It is certain they would not consent to being in the vicinity of a fragment of the stone for such a long journey.

The Haruchai could not also choose to walk back to Revelstone with the fragment. It would be a beacon to SatansFist's army and any other of Foul creatures.


Therefore, Koriks only choice was to try an attack directly on Lord Foul. The subtle corruption of them by the stone enforced the decision and by the time they arrived at Foul's Creche, it was too late for them to even try. Foul was ready for them. I think Korik knew that the lives of the mission were sacrificed, but I dont know that he fathomed the very Vow they served would be broken.

The story I wrote attempts to answer these questions in the context of Donaldson's 'Rules'. There is a final part coming...

wayfriend wrote:

Barnetto wrote:Just on the point you make regarding giants and Ravers, is it that they can't be possessed by a Raver acting alone? Obviously the three Giant Ravers were Giants possessed by Ravers, but only through the additional use of the Illearth Stone. And with Honninscrave the position would have been that he allowed himself to be possessed to prevent the Raver possessing Nom?

It was expressed as the opinion of the Lords, not as a fact, that a Raver on his own was insufficient to possess a Giant.

With Honninscrave, we have the option of believing he willed it; or that he was sufficiently psychologically weakened at that point due to despair; or that the Banefire-enabled rukh was as good as the fragment of the Stone; or that Ravers in that later age were stronger; or something else.

Actually, I have just read the following section at the end of WGW (where Linden is possessed by a Raver in Kiril Threndor and is seeking a way to break its hold) which makes it clear it wasn't just the opinion of the Lords:

"...she felt springing its [moksha Jehannum Raver's] contempt for all things that had flesh and could be mastered - a contempt born of fear. Fear of any form of life able to refuse it. The Forests. Giants. The Haruchai.... The Giants and Haruchai had always been able to refuse. Perhaps because they had not suffered the Land's long history of Ravers, they had not learned to doubt their autonomy. Or perhaps because they had little or no outward expressions of power, they comprehended more fully that true choice was internal. But whatever the explanation, they were proof against possession where the people of the Land were not."

Awesome Barnetto, thanks. I kinda figured the Lords were right.

iQuestor,

Why couldn't the Bloodguard have bypassed the Lurker by traveling through the Giant Woods, up Landsdrop, then across the North Plains to Revelstone?