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Musings on 3, or three musings...

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:00 am
by Barnetto
Three generally empty musings that don't really go anywhere, but....

There are two numbers that appear to have particular significance in the Chronicles.

The number three appears to be acquainted with evil. Three ravers. The giant triplets which became Foul's servants. [The Clave's three corners of truth.]
Spoiler
And in the last Chronicles we have Longwrath, the third son of the third son of the First and Pitchwife.
My only thought here is that this may be in conscious antithesis to the Holy Trinity?

Then there is the number seven. Obviously we have the seven words of power and Kevin's seven wards. Both, here, associated with power but wielded with for good. [Though not in the case of a-Jeroth of the Seven Hells.]

The author also uses the number seven unnecessarily in other places, as when TC is initially summoned by Drool and Foul gives him a message for the Lords about their time remaining being "seven times seven years" and without the staff "they will not be able to resist me for seven years and my victory will be achieved six times seven years earlier".

I have nowhere really to go with this particular observation!

My final observation is that so many of the people in the Land appear to be single children. Covenant and Linden. Roger. There is no mention of Joan having siblings. Lena and Elena. Foamfollower, Trell, Atiaran, Triock, Mhoram, Pitchwife, the First etc etc never mention siblings (as far as I recall).

There are some exceptions. The giant triplets. The Ravers. Honinscrave and Seadreamer.
Spoiler
And in TROTE Linden heals a sibling of the Ramen, Pahni (I think). Though Liand appears to be an only child
. But they are but few.

The reason is probably as mundane and prosaic as the fact that siblings would complicate story and plot unnecessarily and are avoided except where central to the story. However, I can't help musing on just how many single children there are in these works and wondering whether SRD is an only child?

[Edits in square brackets following fortuitous read of a Fatal Musing]

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:34 am
by peter
It would be fair to say that children, although they do play a role here and there, do not feature largely in the chrons. As you say Barnetto the sibling ratio is much lower than expected too. These are not points I have ever given much consideration but, as you say, may have relevence wrt where Donaldson is coming from in life.

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:39 am
by Barnetto
peter wrote:It would be fair to say that children, although they do play a role here and there, do not feature largely in the chrons. As you say Barnetto the sibling ratio is much lower than expected too. These are not points I have ever given much consideration but, as you say, may have relevence wrt where Donaldson is coming from in life.
Indeed, I can only really think of Pietten off-hand - and he was (as far as we know) an only child too!

(Sunder and Hollian never mentioned siblings either.)

(The Lords, Trevor and Loerya(?) had three(?) children, but they weren't particularly significant.)

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:19 am
by peter
I was trying to remember Pieten's story the other night - wasn't he a ramen child (or a child adopted by the ramen) who was damaged in some way and met TC later as an adult with odd habits or charachteristics?

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:34 am
by Barnetto
Woodhelvinnen child damaged by Lord Foul in the battle of Soaring Woodhelvin but one of few/only two to escape. He was taken along by the Lords to Manhome and there adopted by the Ramen - something that came back to haunt them in TPTP. As an adult his damage had come out as a sort of derangement where he considered that the Ramen were betraying the Ranyhyn (since they wouldn't lead them south out of the Land - as a result of the pledge to TC to visit Lena). This lead him to betray the Ramen coverts and then try and murder TC. Lena sacrifices herself to save TC and then a Ranyhyn takes Pietten's spear to save TC. TC then stabs Pietten to death. Much nastiness and many feelings of responsibility engendered....

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:12 am
by peter
Yes Barnetto, now it comes back.
I am not a 'numerology' or cabala aficionado but if I'm remembering correctly the number 7 in particular has much mystical/eosoteric 'baggage' attached to it. Perhaps Donaldson is brining in elements of this into the story. He does use names in particular to reference other culture/belief systems eg Elohim, sheol and Jehanum (I believe).
The lack of children/siblings in the story could be seen as a deficit in a landscape so meticulously crafted and quite possibly would be to a child/family orientatd individual. I'm ok with it because I'm just not that type of person.
A thing that does strike me is how little TC refers to 'God' or Jesus in what must have been a truly terrifying experience (at least in the early stages). Most - even non believers - in that situation would surely have had cause to turn to the religious indoctrination of thier youth. Donaldson does not even explain why TC does not do this even given the 'religiuos' connitations of his disease and subsequent shunning by his community. I find this perhaps a bit strange. Still - he wrote the book, not me :lol:

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:28 am
by Thorhammerhand
Only two

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:35 am
by Barnetto
Well there is the section at the start of TPTP where he enters the travelling preachers' tent and, in desperation, goes up to admit of his sins... an incredibly powerful section I thought but one that probably says quite about SRD's thoughts on (at least ) organised religion.

I think that TC's time at the Leprosarium is a little equivalent to religion, in that it gave him an external set of rules to live by day by day. Of course, what it didn't give him, which religion might (can't say, I'm not that way inclined), is a sympathetic audience to turn to.

Thanks be to God (to coin an inappropriate phrase) that TC didn't turn to religion!!