Kevin's Watch

wreck the most. Was it Trell, Lena mother, Lena or Triock? I personally think it was Triock's *Uses the force to stop stones killing him*, because at least with Lena she wasn't sad and angry. She was insane, but seemed quite happy nonetheless, but Triock was angry and bitter, lost everything. And saw the woman he loved go mad. I thinks it was him Thomas messed up the most.

What do you all think?

In short, I think Trell was most effected. He hurt not only himself, but the stone that he loved. Atiaran only ended up killing herself. Triock held on to his despite, but still tried to only do the best thing for Lena, and Elena, and the Land. And even for Covenant directly. Lena went a but nuts, but she might have done so even if she didn't bear Covenant's child.

In long...

I think the only life he wrecked was his own. The characters that were effected by his acts CHOSE to act the way they did (ignoring the fact that they were simply written like that). For example, the crime was actually committed against Lena, but she chose not to let that act burn the life out of her. She instead went crazy waiting for Covenant's return - but it's conceivable that she could have done that anyway. Trell, Atiaran, and Triock chose to react the way they did. They struggled with it for all those years because they felt like they had to struggle with it - like they had to find a solution that wasn't to be found.

Let's look at it from a different angle - look at the movie Forrest Gump. Look at the emotional journey that Dan Taylor (Lt. Dan) took when he lost his legs. On the battlefield, he thought he was supposed to die like his ancestors - and wanted desparately to do nothing but that. Then when he returned to the states, he sunk into a pit of despair so deep that you could almost hear Foul laughing in the background. But then he CHOSE to save himself. He saw that Forrest became a shimp boat captain, and remembered the off-the-cuff remark he made; that if that happened, he would become his first mate. The offer certainly wasn't a serious one. But Dan grabbed onto that one sarcastic comment and turned it into the anchor for hope that pulled him out of a wretched existance. And there are plenty of real life examples of this as well.

So I think that the people in the Land who were adversely affected by Covenant's presence are responsible to themselves for their actions, and can't say that they acted like they did because of Covenant. I have to admit that if that happened to one of my kids, I'd track down the culprit and do things that would ensure I'd be locked up for a long long time. But that would be my choice. I could just as easily chose to take a more healing path. I'm definately more forgiving for day-to-day stuff (I'm usually accused of being TOO patient with life's challenges). But if someone touches my kids, that crosses the line. (which is one of the reasons I can sympathize with Joan, and have nothing harsh to say about her - that parenting instinct is enough to transform a person) I would blame that person for doing a despicable thing, but I wouldn't say it was their fault that I chose to react to it the way I would.

I agree with you there Romeo. Coventant wasn't responsible for their distress, though he was the cause of it. We're all responsible for our own feelings.

I kinda think he messed up Foul's life the most.

MEGATON dAN wrote:I kinda think he messed up Foul's life the most.

Way to put a fine point on it dAN. I'm happy to think Foul was affected the most.

either foul or findail.... one or the other...

kinda dead, or a stick for the rest of eternity.... hard choice...

or maybe seadreamer... pulled him away from the sunbane which made his pain last longer then in the end was directly responcible for his death at TOT...

Findail? Seadreamer? Guys, you are entitled to your opinions, but don't you think TC has enough guilt already without blaming him for these lives? He obviously did nothing to Findail; Fin was appointed to his fate before TC ever met him. As for Seadreamer; it is the same; even though TC's quest for the One Tree brought him to his doom, he knew it before they ever met. TC's actions may have ended Seadreamer's life, but the earthsight is what did the damage to it.

yes, thats true, but TC prolonged seadreamers life by keeping him away from the clave... surely he would have been slaughtered far earlier if the clave had gotten ahold of him.

and findail was suffering because of what TC had done/was doing/was going to do. maybe not all of it was his fault, but it all boils down to TC being to blame...

(My VERY unique way of looking at things)

Forestal wrote:but it all boils down to TC being to blame...(My VERY unique way of looking at things):D

So unique, in fact, that it hardly has anything to do with fact. Who blamed TC for either Findail or Seadreamer? Nobody in the books, bub. Only you.

Mine. I am in constant re-read of either TCTC or The Gap. This is getting ridiculous...

amanibhavam wrote:Mine. I am in constant re-read of either TCTC or The Gap. This is getting ridiculous...

ROFLMAO!!! You're not the only one, Amani.

I think that Thomas did the most damage by wrecking...

I think he wrecked much of his own life by wrecking other people's lives.

But that's just me...

That is quite a good point. He was never really able to get over the guilt and pain caused by some of the things he had done to others, especially poor Lena...

duchess of malfi wrote:That is quite a good point. He was never really able to get over the guilt and pain caused by some of the things he had done to others, especially poor Lena...

It's interesting how people always seem to attribute society's viewpoint into other people's lives. I've got news for you. Lena never saw it the way you do. She waited for him for decades!!! She did what she could to make sure he didn't get blamed at the beginning. I knew a girl that enjoyed her experience with rape. So you need to stop and realize that it isn't all about the common view.

So then it's your opinion that Lena was mentally and emotionally healthy - that the rape did not harm her in any way? Should we celebrate her forty-year obsession with a man she didn't see in all that time, an obsession that precluded her following the dreams she had when they met? Did her desperate need for his approval make you proud of her faithfulness, or happy for her in some way?

Still, in her delusional world - where she was Covenant's queen and mother of his love-child - she was happy. I guess happiness is the only thing that matters, and we should be happy she achieved it, no matter what the cost.

Actually, I wasn't even thinking about Lena -- Blue Spawn and I were both talking about TC himself. And in the books, it is quite clear that he does feel pain and guilt over what he did.