The right to remain silent
It's actually more important than that. The police have to show probable cause to take you in for the blood test. The roadside test exists solely to create probable cause. By refusing the roadside, you're exercising your 5th Amendment right not to self-incriminate. This means that the police must have rock-solid PC to take you for a blood test, otherwise a halfway decent lawyer will get the results tossed.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Some places still have .1 as DUI? I thought everyone switched to .08 long ago.SoulBiter wrote:Also keep in mind that (depending on the area you live in) even though the Blood Alchohol level for being DUI is set at .10 you will find that .05 and above is officers discretion and they can still charge you with a DUI.
I Never Fail To Be Astounded By The Things We Do For Promises - Ronnie James Dio (All The Fools Sailed Away)
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
Yup, you gotta have .08 as the level to get federal highway funds. It was, IIRC, .15 when I started driving. ".15 to Stay Alive!" was the slogan.sindatur wrote:Some places still have .1 as DUI? I thought everyone switched to .08 long ago.SoulBiter wrote:Also keep in mind that (depending on the area you live in) even though the Blood Alchohol level for being DUI is set at .10 you will find that .05 and above is officers discretion and they can still charge you with a DUI.
To further derail this thread, I think it's disgraceful how something as serious as drunk driving has become politicized and used as a revenue source.
.15 may be a bit on the high side, but .12 isn't. Make the limit reasonable (.08, depending on your size and metabolism, is about a drink and a half), and enforce the shit out of it.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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- Immanentizing The Eschaton
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We don't have roadside sobriety tests. The breathaliser is a little hand-held thing, 'bout the size of a walkman or so. The breathaliser is the test.Rawedge Rim wrote:Essentually, if the cops are giving you a road-side sobriety test, they are taking you in for either a breathalizer or blood test. The road side tests are just for evidence in the event the person pulled over attempts to fight the charge.
'Bout an hour per unit IIRC.Vraith wrote:...alcohol doesn't metabolize THAT fast...
--A
Court: Silence can be used against suspects
So much for that 5th Amendment thing.....Wading into a legally tangled vehicular manslaughter case, a sharply divided high court on Thursday effectively reinstated the felony conviction of a man accused in a 2007 San Francisco Bay Area crash that left an 8-year-old girl dead and her sister and mother injured.
Richard Tom was sentenced to seven years in prison for manslaughter after authorities said he was speeding and slammed into another vehicle at a Redwood City intersection.
Prosecutors repeatedly told jurors during the trial that Tom's failure to ask about the victims immediately after the crash but before police read him his so-called Miranda rights showed his guilt.
Legal analysts said the ruling could affect future cases, allowing prosecutors to exploit a suspect's refusal to talk before invoking 5th Amendment rights against self-incrimination.
"It's a bad and questionable decision," said Dennis Fischer, a longtime criminal appellate lawyer.
Tom's attorney Marc Zilversmit said he is deciding whether to petition the U.S. Supreme Court to take up the issue or renew his arguments in the state court of appeal.
"It's a very dangerous ruling," Zilversmit said. "If you say anything to the police, that can be used against you. Now, if you don't say anything before you are warned of your rights, that too can be used against you."
The state Supreme Court in a 4-3 ruling said Tom needed to explicitly assert his right to remain silent — before he was read his Miranda rights — for the silence to be inadmissible in court.
Tom has been freed on $300,000 bail pending his appeal.
Tom was arrested after his Mercedes sedan plowed into a car driven by Lorraine Wong, who was turning left onto a busy street.
Prosecutors argue that Tom's car was speeding at 67 mph in a 35 mph zone when the collision occurred. He was placed in the back of a police cruiser but was not officially arrested and advised of his rights until later in the day.
Prosecutors said Tom's failure to ask about the Wong family while detained showed his guilt.
Justice Goodwin Liu dissented.
"The court today holds, against common sense expectations, that remaining silent after being placed under arrest is not enough to exercise one's right to remain silent," Liu wrote.
The ACLU filed a friend of the court brief supporting Tom's appeal.
Fischer and others say the ruling might not be the last word on the issue.
The high court ordered the court of appeal to reconsider the case, meaning it could return to the California Supreme Court.
The high court is undergoing a dramatic transition and it's possible that two new justices would reconsider the ruling.
Baxter, a Republican appointee and reliable conservative vote on the court, is retiring in January.
Meanwhile, Gov. Jerry Brown recently nominated Stanford University law professor Mariano-Florentino Cuéllar to fill a vacancy.
"This could be the last hurrah for a conservative Supreme Court," appellate lawyer Jon Eisenberg said.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Hashi Lebwohl
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Great. Now when the police show up the first words out of our mouths needs to be "I understand that I have the right to remain silent and I am now invoking that right". We can identify ourselves later, lest our silence somehow be construed as culpability.
I thought the right to remain silent was a given, even though it took Miranda to say so specifically, but I didn't know we didn't have that right unless we say that we are using that right. That is insane.
I thought the right to remain silent was a given, even though it took Miranda to say so specifically, but I didn't know we didn't have that right unless we say that we are using that right. That is insane.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
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rdhopeca
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Yeah this is one of those "court is with stupid" things...where you don't say anything and then that can be evaluated...that's worse than hearsay as evidence really. If hearsay isn't admissible, how can "hear thought" or "hear what didn't get said" be admissible?
I've remained silent for a long time on Hashi's stewardship of the Tank, don't you dare presume to tell me what that actually means!
The other thing I fail to understand is why the composition of the court matters. How does a move to a less conservative court imply a change in this ruling which seems to lean away from conservative Constitutional principles?
I've remained silent for a long time on Hashi's stewardship of the Tank, don't you dare presume to tell me what that actually means!
The other thing I fail to understand is why the composition of the court matters. How does a move to a less conservative court imply a change in this ruling which seems to lean away from conservative Constitutional principles?
Rob
"Progress is made. Be warned."
"Progress is made. Be warned."
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Hashi Lebwohl
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Unfortunately he's gluten-intolerant.......Hashi Lebwohl wrote:It means you think I am the best thing since sliced bread.rdhopeca wrote:I've remained silent for a long time on Hashi's stewardship of the Tank, don't you dare presume to tell me what that actually means!
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Hashi Lebwohl
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- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm
That may be so, but I generally prefer to use oat flour when making bread. No, really--I used to make bread from scratch and I found that oat flour was easier to work with and gave a great flavor.Cail wrote:Unfortunately he's gluten-intolerant.......
Welcome to the Tank, Harbinger. I am afraid I don't quite follow you. Would you care to elaborate?
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
Sure. Actually I was bored and drunk last night and I hadn't been to the tank in a while and I didn't notice it was Cail's thread. Sorry to question the use of tool as a descriptive noun for a particular person.
In the early 90s, when I was in college, the word tool became fashionable to apply to humans. It was primarily used to describe the posers or fakers that were the members of the granola crowd- young, impressionable libs with hemp sandals and Dr. Suessish hats.
Nowadays, a tool, when used to describe a human, is generally someone who is being used.
I'm just as guilty of labeling someone based on limited information. From the author's writing style, complete absence of active aggression, and specificity, I thought nerd was possibly a better description than tool. Furthermore, I personally like what the guy did at customs and think it's cool. It cost him a couple of hours, but he got the satisfaction of a little, personal victory. Possibly he unleashed his inner badass. Good for him.
In the early 90s, when I was in college, the word tool became fashionable to apply to humans. It was primarily used to describe the posers or fakers that were the members of the granola crowd- young, impressionable libs with hemp sandals and Dr. Suessish hats.
Nowadays, a tool, when used to describe a human, is generally someone who is being used.
I'm just as guilty of labeling someone based on limited information. From the author's writing style, complete absence of active aggression, and specificity, I thought nerd was possibly a better description than tool. Furthermore, I personally like what the guy did at customs and think it's cool. It cost him a couple of hours, but he got the satisfaction of a little, personal victory. Possibly he unleashed his inner badass. Good for him.
Never underestimate the power of denial. - Ricky Fitts
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Vraith
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Huh. I always meant it as part of this scale [from least to most]:Harbinger wrote:
Nowadays, a tool, when used to describe a human, is generally someone who is being used.
dork, tool, dickhead, fuckskull.
Hashi...I love oat-based bread.
On-topic, hopefully this gets reconsidered/moves back up the chain. Cuz it is jaw-hits-floor brand of stupid.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
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Hashi Lebwohl
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No, I caught the use of the word "tool", I was only confused as to whom it might have been directed.
If we find any more articles related to this topic in the news then this thread will definitely stay more visible.
I don't mind drunk posting, myself, because it keeps things interesting.
If we find any more articles related to this topic in the news then this thread will definitely stay more visible.
I don't mind drunk posting, myself, because it keeps things interesting.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.