Kevin's Watch

Maybe it's me, but I just haven't enjoyed coming to Kevin's Watch in a while. There just seems to be a stagnating air of insularity around here. I don't know, maybe it's always been here and I just didn't recognize it. Maybe I used to think I belonged or that people at least listened to me.

As long as I've been here, I've tried to stick up for what I thought was right. I'm not saying I wanted to force my opinions on others, but that sometimes other people were getting the shaft and nobody wanted to say anything about it. Nobody cares, though. Not the people I've supported or my peers here (except Brinn... credit where it's due, and that's one person not afraid to stand up for what he believes in).

And while I'm at it (let the self-pity flow, I say)... Dissecting. You know, on my last two chapters, not a single person said, "Good job, Syl," or, "Nice effort, Syl." I tried to shrug it off, but the more I looked at other dissections, the more it just felt like a shunning.

Have I expressed my opinions too freely? Have I put myself outside the accepted circle, despite the time and work I've put into this community, by not following the company line?

People can post the most innane chatter all over the place, but someone says something we don't like and we flood the post? Twice, even after I asked we not be so discourteous? A person expresses a view contrary to our own and we feel it's ok to make an ad hominem attack? More to the point, nobody is called to task for this? Some animals are more equal than othes, I guess. It really feels like this is becoming one of those boards where it's all about who makes the most noise, or who knows the key players.

Take it as the ramblings of a burnt out member, just ignore it like most everyone does the rest of my posts, or take it to heart. Whatever. See you guys later.

This isn't a good-bye thread. I'm not that naive. I'll still be around... for a while, anyway. It's just a kind of heads up, gripe fest thing. Maybe something of a reality/who your real friends are kind of check.

I am very sorry to see this post syl. I fear that I may be one of the ad hominem attackers you are refering too, although i, too, was just standing up for what i believed in. I don't know about the "key players" point, but maybe that's just because i don't know them. If I am one of the people that has put you off then i sincerely apologise(i can't spell). As for being shunned, I can't comment. I'm unhappy now

don't leave... please

Unfortunately I do not stand up for what I believe in. I wish I did, but I do not. Knowing that, I can only offer apologies. Judging from the "Gay Monument" thread, I assume my recent replies to you have spurred on this very thread. Again, all apologies. You are a pillar of this community, and never forget it. Whenever you feel like you're "working" or that this is a corporation or a company, just remember that's it's a message board and it's where we should have fun--first and foremost. That goes for all of us that feel like Syl. We need reminders, or we forget what KW is supposed to be about if we're not reminded for long. We need them.

I think some of us (including me) do indeed take KW a bit too seriously. Obviously this is a discussion room with some serious discussion threads, but, again, it's all for naught if we're having no fun.

Syl, I have not always agreed with some of your views (which is natural as we are two different people) -- but I have always looked forward to reading your posts. I have a great deal of respect for you. I hope you will return soon, as I feel that the Watch greatly needs your voice and viewpoints.

I can understand why you need to take a break, as I have been taking quite a few of them recently myself. It just hasn't seemed to be as much fun to me to be here, lately, either. I just hope that your break refreshes and reenergizes you, and that you return soon.

Syl; I hear you. This site has been less 'fun' to be around lately. I couldn't define it if I had to and hope it's just a passing feeling of mine.
But I must tell you that many of your posts simply need no reply because they are so well thought out and presented. I couldn't count the times I wanted to log in just to say, "Exactly, Syl."

That is very true, Dromond. Syl often has very compelling posts...sums up his thoughts very well. I will definately miss them while he is on his break.
I don't know that I could put a finger on it, either (...and then again, what might annoy someone else might not annoy me and vice versa.) And I am someone who lets lots of petty little things add up to a couple of big things. So things that other people might easily blow off tend to bug me a little more. I just know that I, personally, have not been having as much fun since sometime last summer...I don't know if the Watch actually changed or just my perception of it changed at that time.

(sorry if this is too rambling, I worked midnights last night and have bounced back to afternoons today and am a bit )

Dromond wrote:But I must tell you that many of your posts simply need no reply because they are so well thought out and presented. I couldn't count the times I wanted to log in just to say, "Exactly, Syl."

I felt the same way Syl and I'm sorry I didn't compliment you in Dissecting but you're so damm good I didn't feel I needed to-your words spoke for themselves. I know that the Watch has been getting a little inane lately-alot of us have had to take "mini-vacations" here and there from such.

You've always been my main man and not seeing your posts would rip my heart out.

I dont get what your saying syl .. I myself so often find myself quoting something you've said .. and giving you credit for those usually brilliant comments.

We all get burnt out .. as many here .. I try to attend a number of boards .. and contribute .. but time restraints make it difficult and burn out inevitable.

And sure i dont always agree with you either .. usually on political issues like the others here I have always respected your views ..

and LOL - Foul .. yeah you never stand up for what you believe!!!!! ROFLMAO!!

syl .. you are one of the best and brightest we have here ..

I have seen a lot of members here quote your posts and agree with your pov .. or challenge it .. and regardless of the nature of responses of any kind are always positive ..

too many to cite here ..

and as for 'dissecting' .. i rarely read 'dissecting' .. cos i just dont have time to join in the read

Ah, Sylvanus my friend That you feel so neglected here is a sad realisation to me. Personally, I have the greatest respect for you, I always keep my eyes peeled for a "Syl" in the Last Post By column Your comments are always insightful, thought-provoking, entertaining or all three. If you feel you need a break, it's probably all for the best - hopefully it will recharge your batteries and bring you back to the Watch. I too have felt slightly listless recently, I seem less inclined to post anything... Perhaps we all need a break...

Go and recuperate with my blessing, but know that you will be missed, not just by me but by many of us here. Be true.

I do not want anyone to "quit" from the Watch! Please stay with us Syl!

I have now encountered several views that something has happened to the Watch, that is has changed. Since I have not been here for long, I lack perspective. Perhaps it is a phase that all forums go through? Still, I hope we can turn things right again!

Is something rotten in the Watch of Kevin? And if so: what can we do about it?

The Watch is a unique and special place on the web. It is the only forum where I regularly post [But that's not what makes it so special ] . I've come to know most of you (some better than others) through your posts, views and opinions and I enjoy the feeling of community. However, familiarity breeds habits of socialization that are difficult to avoid. It's difficult to challenge others beliefs and/or opinions when you know, like and respect them. Skyweir, Kinslaughterer, Foul et al have consistently challenged my social/political views and I appreciate them all the more for their efforts. If not for them I'd be talking to myself in the Tank which wouldn't be much fun.

I enjoy the exchange of ideas, I love the differences of opinion and I thrive on dissenting views. The debate process forces me to constantly and critically reassess my positions and views and in so doing expands my boundaries. That is why I love the Think-Tank dearly. I enjoy the other forums and I read almost every post but the spirited debates and controversial issues are what really gets my blood moving. The fact that these heated debates can be and are conducted with respect and maturity, without flaming and without ad-hominem attacks are what sets the Watch apart from other forums.

Mr. Frost you are a shining example of all that is right about this place. You are intelligent, tolerant, opinionated and not afraid to discuss the difficult issues even if your views runs contrary to popular sentiment. I'm convinced that you often take your "Devil's Advocate' position solely for the sake of generating debate and I applaud you because it makes this place much more interesting. Thank you for your contributions and I sincerely hope that you find a renewed zest for posting. I've missed your input in the Tank and hope to hear from you soon.

Hm. I know what you mean. Well, the important thing is that this is just a message board. I would hope that everyone here is open enough to accept everyone for whatever their views are. I mean, I personally would not want to come to a place where I was judged all of the time and I felt like I had to defend myself all of the time. But I'm glad to see that other members of the Watch have posted to help cheer you up. And I'm glad that you all know that the main point of the message board is just to have fun. But yeah. Sometimes we all just need a break from a good thing, heh. You can't eat ice cream every day before you get sick of it. Heh. But yeah, the important thing, Syl, is that if you have any big problems, to just talk to me or the other people at the forum. I always try my best to help clear things up, heh. I want everyone to be happy, of course, heh.

Also, I seriously hope there isn't some sort of "elite circle" of members who are putting other people out. If so, then I should really know more about this so it can be dealt with. Those kinds of attitudes shouldn't be welcome here.

But besides that, I guess we may just need to come up with a few ideas to make the Watch for fun and interesting, since some of you seem to be in the Winter Blues, heh. Any ideas for stuff we can do?

I'm at your service, heh.-jay

I'm sure many of us are frustrated, Syl. You obviously feel the need to take a break- do so. I did, and it was hard to stay away, but I did. And I came back attempting to start off with a clean slate.

But, like Syl has pointed out, it's been less fun here at the Watch. I cannot describe it. I (literally) can't blame anyone. That's just the way it is around here lately.

In conclusion, Sylvanus- I, as a member at Kevins Watch, will miss your presence and posts. Return swiftly.

Brinn wrote:The Watch is a unique and special place on the web. It is the only forum where I regularly post [But that's not what makes it so special ]

Not to ignore the pithiness of this post, but Brinn, you are KILLING me!

Syl -

I don't know what to say. I won't post a list of my favorite people in the other thread, it's not a popularity contest - but I will say that you're definitely on it. I love you, and I love Hellfire. There does seem to be a somewhat unpleasant vibe at the Watch sometimes lately. I don't know what it is, but a lot of people seem to feel the same way. By all means, if you feel you need a break, take one.....just come back. Both of you.

Heh, I've warned you guys before that I can get pretty cantankerous and full of self-righteous indignation and all (and I tried to fully acknowledge the self-pity side of things in my post... though considering some people seemed to have missed that part where I said I wasn't leaving... *shakes fist*)

Sorry, I had this feeling like people were just ignoring my posts. (Fear the paranoid egocentric!) You guys have dispelled those fears. Thanks for the warm fuzzies, and sorry I got them at the cost of worrying people.

I meant to say, though did a horrible job of it... never write when you're in a foul mood... I meant to say that the brunt of responsibility for my perceptions is on me, and that I was just burnt out for whatever reasons.

Bah... to quote Ikkyu (again )

I won't die I wont go away I'll always be here
No good asking me I won't speak

So I'll be here, though I'm just gonna kind of be in the background chillin.' Maybe do a little bit of heckling like the old guys on The Muppet Show (Sheridan and... ?).

Some advice, though... be nice to eachother - especially the ones you might think are least deserving. I'm not the kind of guy who would tell someone to kill 'em with kindness. It's just that the way we treat those we like the least, the more we try to understand them, the greater we can say we test our knowledge of ourselves.

This board is a great community. Yes, there are some people here (myself included, I suppose) that kind of... I don't know, hold more shares in the company, to use a mixed metaphor (factor in things like post count, time at the board, respect... not that you can quantify this kind of thing, but hopefully I'm not coming off like a complete ass). So those a little more so, but all of us have to kind of keep in mind that our actions (words, whatever) shape our environment. Our environment also shapes us, so it's kind of hard to accept change in the environment. Change is manditory if we want to grow, and if you guys have looked at the stats lately...

Anyway, I'm kind of rambling now (and sounding like a pompous ass... no, I'm ok with it). You're all great. Talk to y'later.

-Syl-

Syl, please stay and talk! Your posts are cool! You haven't been being ignored! Not by a long shot. Everyone's been on vaca's and prolly unable to post. I haven't replyed to any intelligent posts 'cause I'm prone to fits of idiocy.
<<<<<notice the name, title, and avatar: big idiocy fit right there!
Anyway, I hope you don't leave!

Syl wrote:*shakes fist*

What the hell did I do!?! Shake me?? Shake this, pal!!

Syl wrote:Bah... to quote Ikkyu (again )

I won't die I wont go away I'll always be here
No good asking me I won't speak

Hey,weren't you going to send me an email of works of his??

Syl wrote:So I'll be here, though I'm just gonna kind of be in the background chillin.' Maybe do a little bit of heckling like the old guys on The Muppet Show (Sheridan and... ?).

YES!! We have the whole series on DVD. (I get to blame it on having kids. )




But here's what I really have to say. Syl's certainly not the first to feel a bit upset around here. From Le Guin’s Dragonfly. (Fire, I promise it reveals nothing.)

”…What comes next?”

After a long time, Azver said, “I have no idea.”

“Your leaves and shadows tell you nothing?”

“Change, change,” said the Patterner. “Transformation.”

So it is in Earthsea. So it is in life. So it is at the Watch.

Many of us doubtless think back on earlier times (waaaaaaay back to several months ago ) as “the good old days” of Kevin’s Watch. There was a relatively small group of frequent posters who agreed on many of life’s major issues, but had a great time debating, discussing, and just plain praising, aspects of TCTC. It was glorious fun!

Many wonder why we don’t have that feeling now, and how we can get it back.

Well…

We can’t. Such things can’t sustain themselves. There is change. There is growth. There are probably twice as many members now as there were when I joined nearly a year ago. It is inevitable that there will be drastically different opinions on the major life-issues. X gets upset by what Y said. Z gets upset that Y got upset. A tries to lighten the situation with jokes, and B thinks A should take the issue more seriously.

It’s all just growing pains and life. The Watch is not what it was. For better or worse, and I’m sure it will be both at times, it is a living, growing thing. What choice is there? Should we have put a cap on the number of members? (Before I joined, perhaps?:( ) Should we have implemented a screening process for membership? Should we make certain topics off-limits? Would we want no new ideas, no new personalities?
Bad ideas, all. As Don Shimoda said in Richard Bach’s Illusions:

”If perfection is stagnation, then heaven is a swamp! And the Is ain’t hardly no swamp-cookie.”

But we don’t have to worry. Again from Dragonfly (Eeeeeeasy, Fire! No plot revealed. )

"My Lord Patterner, will you defy our Rule and our community, that has been one so long, upholding order against the forces of ruin? Will it be you, of all men, who break the pattern?"

"It is not glass, to break," Azver said. "It is breath, it is fire."

The Watch changes from itself to itself.

We just need to ride it out. And we’ll need to ride out the growth and changes time and time again. The solution is acceptance and patience. If you have them, use them. See if you can make them grow in others. Let’s see where it all leads.

Syl, you have been the voice of tolerance more than once. In the nicest way possible, you’ve repeatedly told us all to listen to what others have to say - that they have the right to say it, even if we don’t like it, or it’s painful. Pretty much shaming us into being the people we always claim to be. In addition, your posts consistently reveal you to be among the smartest and wisest people it’s been my joy to know. You tackle the serious stuff, but keep us laughing at the same time. You are as much the heart of the Watch as anyone, and NOBODY is more respected.

And, of course, you’re the one who brought me here. The rest can curse you, but I’m eternally grateful.

Hi guys Miss you all. I was shown the flooded post and my heart weeped for The Watch to allow such a thing.

It seems like this wierd never ending circle of drama and it is a real turn-off but I guess that is part of the charm that comes with any group calling itself "family".

Syl is like that boy in the family that always makes straight A's and some times feels a little left out because the troublemakers get ALL the attention!!! I think it is great that so many have come forward to show that he is needed around here.

Sorry for the absence but I have only small spurts of time to be on the computer lately and I am just too busy to do anything but read the occasional thread. I hope to make more apperances soon.

Skyweir wrote: I myself so often find myself quoting something you've said ..

thought i should add that i also .. misquote what you say too!!

HELLFIRE!! GREAT TO SEE YOU!!!!

i do hope that we make all welcome here though this shouldnt mean that it is inappropriate to challenge views we dont agree with .. so long as we do it nicely ..

as the humble haruchai so eloquently said .. we as a board grow from a variety of views ..

and this board is what it is because of who makes it up .. if its not so hot .. we have no one to blame but ourselves

and we can always do better