Kevin's Watch

We've got a pretty amazing body count by the end of AATE. I'm gonna take stock:

For the Good Guys:
* Linden and Covenant
* Stave
* Mahrtiir
* Bhapa
* Pahni (maybe; I see an angle in her for Despite to work on...)
* The Swordmainnir
* The two remaining Humbled (maybe)
* Jeremiah

For the Bad Guys:
* Lord Foul (duh)
* Kastenessen
* Roger
* the skurj
* the Sandgorgons
* the other two Ravers (where did turiya go?)
* SHE

I'm on the fence about:
* the Masters (maybe they'll come around...)
* the Elohim (I don't think Jeremiah's construct trapped them)
* Longwrath (if the Elohim die, would his madness be lifted?)
* the Worm of the World's End

Who or what did I forget?

Why are you on the fence about the Worm?

SRD will never, ever, write about a Raman turning against the Land. Pahni may be depressed, but she'll stay a good guy.

You left out the Cavewights for the bad guys.

The Masters will come around.

Ur-viles and Waynhim for the good guys.

The Dead for the good guys.

*choke* Horrim Carabal for the good guys.

The Ardent's horse for the good guys, since I assume Covenant will need a ride.

Yeah ... the Lurker ... who thought THAT part of the story made sense?!

I forgot about the Lurker. That *was* kind of weird, wasn't it?

If the Worm is a naturally-occurring phenomenon, then it could be seen as either good or evil. Kind of like wiping your hard drive after a nasty virus attack. And hey, if it *only* eats the Elohim...

The Sun and Stars (elohim) winking out is either the Worm eating them or they are getting caught in the construct that Jerimiah has made for them (probably a bit of both).

As for Pahni, every entity in your list of good guys has done the work of despite in some form at some point. It is the nature of things

My question is: if a construct captures elohim will it also bind Kastenessen. If not, at what point does an Elohim derived being become free of this constructs ability. Would An Appointed be free of such glamor? Will we find another appointed in the future.

Missing from the list and posts so far:
Insequent
Rahnyhyn

The Appointed wrote:My question is: if a construct captures elohim will it also bind Kastenessen. If not, at what point does an Elohim derived being become free of this constructs ability. Would An Appointed be free of such glamor? Will we find another appointed in the future.

Will Findail be sucked out of the SoL?

The Appointed wrote:
My question is: if a construct captures elohim will it also bind Kastenessen. If not, at what point does an Elohim derived being become free of this constructs ability.

Presumably when he/she is no longer an elohim. I don't think there's enough left of Findail for him to be removed from the Staff at this point. Unlike Kastenessen, he also went willingly (mostly) to his fate--even if he were offered a way out, he might not take it.

And on the subject of Kastenessen. . . Roger (with just a hand) was subject to the blinding effects of Jeremiah's "cloaking device" in the Lost Deep: I assume the hand's original owner would also be vulnerable.

The skest may still be around. They were working with Joan and turiya, and so probably still bad.

And there's the Feroce. They helped TC and the Humbled ward off the skest, so they may still work for good.

Madadeva wrote:Yeah ... the Lurker ... who thought THAT part of the story made sense?!

It makes sense when viewed in the certainty of the destruction of the earth. All life will be eradicated - Lurker included. This creature apparently woke up to the fact the Pure One *might* actually have a chance of stopping the Worm.

Stop the Worm - save the Lurker. Time enough later to revert to prior status quo.

Prover of Life wrote:

Madadeva wrote:Yeah ... the Lurker ... who thought THAT part of the story made sense?!

It makes sense when viewed in the certainty of the destruction of the earth. All life will be eradicated - Lurker included. This creature apparently woke up to the fact the Pure One *might* actually have a chance of stopping the Worm.

Stop the Worm - save the Lurker. Time enough later to revert to prior status quo.

Yes, indeed. Larger concerns tend to shift priorities.

but is the lurker really the remnants of kelenbhrabanal?

bushidoken wrote:but is the lurker really the remnants of kelenbhrabanal?

No way...

bushidoken wrote:but is the lurker really the remnants of kelenbhrabanal?

Remnants? Doesn't the text suggest that the Lurker was the means by which Lord Foul killed Khelenbrabanal?

Indeed, the text suggests that, but doesn't say it outright. And even if the lurker did kill Kelenbhrabanal, I don't think it would have rent his spirit like the sandgorgon did to Sheol.

I still find the whole "how did Foul kill Kelenbhrabanal given that he's not corporate" conversation in AATE to be, well, silly. Even assuming Foul can't touch things (and we know he can; he smacks Covenant across the face, among other things), I'm sure he could get a Raver to drop a big rock on him.

aliantha wrote:the other two Ravers (where did turiya go?)

Well, of the three ravers, Samehadi is in pieces warping the sandgorgons, Turiya was in possession of Joan until he split just before Covenant killed her, and Moksha is AWOL (although in FR on pg. 398, it says that Linded didn't know where Moksha was)

Moksha was in control of the kresh during the big battle at the Woodhelvin in FR.

Don't know if SHE is on the bad side.. or the good side..

She'll munch on Roger like any other male.

I wonder what cavewrights taste like? Sandgorgon.. Ravers?

Even the croyel was a bit scared of her. (to say the least)

If SHE is on the loose then it may be Foul who may be hiding.

Wrath hast no fury as a women's scorn..

And that one (SHE) has some scorn to dish out.

Regarding my previous post, I have realized something (possibly):

The Ramen have long called the Despiser Fangthane the Render. Do they do this because their people have a long-lived memory of the rending of Kelebhrabanal by Foul? Mahrtiir's story makes pretty clear that they don't actually know how Kelenbhrabanal was killed, but rather deduce it from the Ranyhyn's particular fear of the lurker.

And IF the father of horses was rent, what of the remnants of his spirit? If we're to accept what is suggested, then the lurker may have been Foul's tool to rend Kelenbhrabanal's spirit. Perhaps the Ranyhyn are afraid of the lurker because it represents their unconfronted grief with the loss of their ancient father...

Anyway, perhaps there is more to this idea of Kelenbhrabanal's rending...and did you notice that the Ranyhyn that bears Jeremiah is named Khelen (which is damn close to Kelen)? That's too close to be a coincidence...