Kevin's Watch

All through the Chonicles (1st, 2nd, and last), the necessity of freedom has been a really big deal. No coercion for the good guys; even Foul has to trick/mislead/deceive people into destroying themselves, rather than just forcing them.

But how do we reconcile this with Jeremiah? What about his freedom? Assuming he didn't allow himself to be, err, croyeled, he was nothing more than a tool during RotE and FR--how did Foul and his allies expect him to be able to accomplish anything useful for them?

Dagonet wrote:All through the Chonicles (1st, 2nd, and last), the necessity of freedom has been a really big deal. No coercion for the good guys; even Foul has to trick/mislead/deceive people into destroying themselves, rather than just forcing them.

But how do we reconcile this with Jeremiah? What about his freedom? Assuming he didn't allow himself to be, err, croyeled, he was nothing more than a tool during RotE and FR--how did Foul and his allies expect him to be able to accomplish anything useful for them?

I suppose that depends on what they expect him to do once he's free. At the least, the "imprisonment" of the Elohim removes one more obstacle for RC's and LF's path....

His freedom amy not be necessary. He doesn't have white gold, so he doesn't need to have the freedom to destroy the world. Foul used him to hurt Linden.

The necessity of freedom functions in 2 separate, but overlapping ways.
For LF it is only a single-purpose restriction: no tool of his can break the arch to free him...and that isn't what Jerry's power is for.

For the "good guys" it has a more general application: limiting a good guys freedom by definition serves LF. [that's one of the essential reasons the Master's are actually serving LF].

BTW...[speculation:] this is one reason why the Creator never appeared and warned Linden.
If she DOESN'T doubt the Creator [which she wouldn't if warned] then she is his tool.

Vraith wrote:BTW...[speculation:] this is one reason why the Creator never appeared and warned Linden.
If she DOESN'T doubt the Creator [which she wouldn't if warned] then she is his tool.

Yeah, I don't like Covenant's blithe offhand speculation about why the old guy didn't show up to warn Linden this time.

In thinking about this just now...the pattern *might* be that the Creator shows up right before the person's *first* translation to the Land. At the start of the 2nd Chrons, Covenant didn't see the old man -- only Linden did. Being visited by him might mean only that you've been chosen to serve his purposes in the Land. We may well find out in the last book that Jeremiah saw him years and years ago.

aliantha wrote:

Vraith wrote:BTW...[speculation:] this is one reason why the Creator never appeared and warned Linden.
If she DOESN'T doubt the Creator [which she wouldn't if warned] then she is his tool.

Yeah, I don't like Covenant's blithe offhand speculation about why the old guy didn't show up to warn Linden this time.

In thinking about this just now...the pattern *might* be that the Creator shows up right before the person's *first* translation to the Land. At the start of the 2nd Chrons, Covenant didn't see the old man -- only Linden did. Being visited by him might mean only that you've been chosen to serve his purposes in the Land. We may well find out in the last book that Jeremiah saw him years and years ago.

I made a somewhat similar speculation once upon a time somewhere: The Creator doesn't show cuz he's picked his team, and he's sticking with it. He just utterly believes in them, one interview is enough.

Agreed, Vraith and Aliantha. In noting the pattern, I also note that TC got a direct visit from the Creator in the first Chronicles, and got *indirect warning via Linden* the second time. Linden got direct warning her first time, and *indirect warning via Jeremiah* the second time. Or what were Jeremiah's constructs of Revelstone and Mt. Thunder, if not warnings for Linden that a visit to the Land was coming up?

(Not to say Jeremiah's constructs of Revelstone/Mt. Thunder were only for that purpose, or even partially for that purpose, or that the Creator had any hand in it or spoke to Jeremiah. But Linden had her indirect warning, and who's to say the Creator isn't behind that somewhere? Well, who besides the Creator, aka SRD.)

I think it's important to remember that Lord Foul put his "mark" on Jeremiah when he was a young boy. That being said, the necessity of freedom should probably dictate that Jeremiah made the decision (albeit indirectly, and likely through the influence of his birth mother) to serve Foul conciously. Also, TC said in AATE that he didn't think that there was any act of Jeremiah's in the past that couldn't be, in some way, rectified. I think that indicates that Jeremiah did choose to serve Foul in the past, but also that TC thought he could still be saved.