Kevin's Watch

Just curious as to what people's takes on Jerimiah's bone structure are.

Personally, I think all it is just what J said it was -- a door to let his mind out. Despite Infelice shrieking and vanishing as it activated I don't think it's an Elohim trap/prison.

The Elohim have been mistaken about human intention at least one other time. Jeremiah said the thing he built was a door out of his mind -- he didn't say anything about trapping anybody in it. I believe him.

I think Jeremiah has trapped the Elohim in his mind--in the place where all his thoughts had been trapped before he built the construct. I don't think that was necessarily his intention, but I think that was the effect.

just to free his mind

Seareach wrote:just to free his mind

Ditto.

Not to TRAP the Elohim - to PROTECT them from the Worm. Now it's gonna have to come to Skyweir and face Covenant ASAP. And no infernal interference from the Elohim to screw things up. He'll free them again at the end, you wait and see.

TWDuke77 wrote:Not to TRAP the Elohim - to PROTECT them from the Worm. Now it's gonna have to come to Skyweir and face Covenant ASAP. And no infernal interference from the Elohim to screw things up. He'll free them again at the end, you wait and see.

I speculated elsewhere about the possibility that Jerry might trap them, thereby save them, and let them out later. [whether he's smart/caring enough to plan and want to do that remains to be seen] It's unclear to me if this structure trapped them or not [it might have, after all it's made from the bones of creatures that hunted the Elo], or if it's just that the Elo knew that once Jerry got his mind free he'd be able to trap them.

I personally speculate that it may have used Elohim as pieces of the construct.

Isn't the topic title a spoiler?

native wrote:Isn't the topic title a spoiler?

No, i don't think so. It's non specific. If it said "Jerimiah's Bone Construct" then I would have a problem with it.

I don't have my copy in front of me right now, but almost immediately after J frees himself and traps the Elohim, in the following chapter during Covenant's discussion with Clyme and Branl, there is a line about how power is only useful when it is constrained by boundaries - and he actually says something about how useless the Elohim are because they HAVE no boundaries...

Well...my guess is that J's trapping of the Elohim (which clearly imposes boundaries and constraints upon them) will somehow actually allow them/force them to use their power to intervene, based on the theme involving power and constraint. How, I have no idea. But it seems like a pretty big textual clue.

Seareach wrote:

native wrote:Isn't the topic title a spoiler?

No, i don't think so. It's non specific. If it said "Jerimiah's Bone Construct" then I would have a problem with it.

Yeah, 'cuz there can be other "constructs" that aren't built by Jeremiah

I also wanted to chime in to say that I really like johnsomc's interpretation.

I agree that the story is ambiguous as to whether the Elohim were trapped or not. Maybe we could ask SRD in his Gradual Interview? If he says "Wait til the next book" that means something significant is impending on the matter. If he says "Didn't I make it obvious they were trapped?" that answers that.

But also, wasn't the bone construct destroyed in the process? How would it still trap the Elohim?

Aleksandr wrote: But also, wasn't the bone construct destroyed in the process? How would it still trap the Elohim?

Yea, part of my uncertainty: were they all instantly trapped? Or will he do that later? If later...looks like the Worm is coming this way now...so if any are free how are they hiding? And when will it be built? And why?

Vraith wrote:

Aleksandr wrote: But also, wasn't the bone construct destroyed in the process? How would it still trap the Elohim?

Yea, part of my uncertainty: were they all instantly trapped? Or will he do that later? If later...looks like the Worm is coming this way now...so if any are free how are they hiding? And when will it be built? And why?

Roger talks about how Jeremiah can open a door to another place and then shut it, trapping the Elohim within. If you burn the door down, that'd probably trap the Elohim there effectively forever.

Aleksandr wrote:I agree that the story is ambiguous as to whether the Elohim were trapped or not. Maybe we could ask SRD in his Gradual Interview? If he says "Wait til the next book" that means something significant is impending on the matter. If he says "Didn't I make it obvious they were trapped?" that answers that.

I'll ask him this weekend at WFC. Stay tuned.

aliantha wrote:

Aleksandr wrote:I agree that the story is ambiguous as to whether the Elohim were trapped or not. Maybe we could ask SRD in his Gradual Interview? If he says "Wait til the next book" that means something significant is impending on the matter. If he says "Didn't I make it obvious they were trapped?" that answers that.

I'll ask him this weekend at WFC. Stay tuned.

And I'll make a bunch of noise while he answers

Orlion wrote:

aliantha wrote:

Aleksandr wrote:I agree that the story is ambiguous as to whether the Elohim were trapped or not. Maybe we could ask SRD in his Gradual Interview? If he says "Wait til the next book" that means something significant is impending on the matter. If he says "Didn't I make it obvious they were trapped?" that answers that.

I'll ask him this weekend at WFC. Stay tuned.

And I'll make a bunch of noise while he answers

Why???? He'll probably say RAFO anyhow!

The fact that Jeremiah used the quellvisk bones to free his mind is not purely incidental. There's a clear relation to those bones and the Elohim and their motives to intervene in affairs.

We know that the Elohim only began to fight the quellvisks once they had found their way to Elemesnedene. So basically, once the danger reached their backyard, they decided to respond with action.

Perhaps the connection lies in the sort of "fixing and mending what is broken" motif throughout the book. Jeremiah's self-composed emancipation of his own mind via an Earthpower-guided marrowmelded construct of bones which were the result of the Elohim's mercilessness may yet have benefits for the Elohim themselves.

He builds structures. The one that freed him from his mental stasis was ultimately made possible by Anele and the orcrest. Linden's Staff of Law was once Anele's, but he lost it. The Staff of Law supports the essential structures of Earthpower. Jeremiah is Linden's son. It is conceivable that he may have the ability to wield the Staff. Or to build another structure that would somehow support the Earth and Law.

The Elohim fear being caught in a structure created by Jeremiah, despite the fact that they Appointed Findail to the task of being bound with Vain--who is pure structure--in the Staff of Law. Perhaps what they're really afraid of is Jeremiah's talent being used to bind all of them into some structure that would serve to defend and support Time and Law.

I just read this chapter today. I think the construct was solely to free his mind. But I think Infelice freaked out so badly because she can see the eventual outcome of that freedom - Foul can now possess Jeremiah (his mind being walled up was his defense against possession).

The Elohim may fear being imprisoned inside a construct, but they fear LF getting in control of Jeremiah more I would think.