Kevin's Watch

I finished reading the book yesterday - I didn't take everything in; I'm going to start rereading it to scrape up any of the crumbs that fell into my lap after the first serving. Yet my first impression was one of considerable disappointment; which actually pains me to say as I love Donaldson's works, and I admire and respect him for his professional integrity and commitment to his fans, but this book was just disappointing on so many levels. There is so much wrong here.

The first issue which struck me was the Roger and Thomas interaction. So we've been waiting for years for this moment, right? A moment we've been avidly thinking about since we found out that Roger was Foul's lackey... father vs son; what would be said, how would Thomas feel, could Roger be redeemed, will this confrontation bring us layers to Rogers character that we've not had?
But no... we get none of that; we get two sentences of interaction and that's it.
It's not just that that bothers me; Covenant barely gives the fact that his son is Foul's servant a second thought in this book, and in a story where the main character has gone through all kinds of hell and effort and where every second thought is of her son this strikes me as bizarre. Now sure, many people would say that it's because he's not seen Roger since the child was one year old, but that's not good enough. I ask all the fathers - and mothers in fact - to think of your child when they were one. You've heard them laugh/cry, play with toys, played with them to make them smile. You've bonded with and love them - this would cross the mind of any parent in Thomas' situation. The confrontation is not good enough; Thomas' lack of thought to this is not good enough. If Thomas doesn't care - if we don't read emotional state regarding his son - then we don't care about Roger. So Roger is diminished from being the renegade son of our hero - with all the emotional weighting that would carry - to being a caricature villain with little plausible motivation.

One of the other problems I had with this book was the deaths; Esmer and Joan in particular. There was so many things wrong with these deaths.
I guessed that the Manacles were for Esmer, though to be honest I theorized that they were to bind him as a new capstone for the Skurj. An anguishing end to an anguished character, very Donaldson like. Now I admit maybe my expectations in this effect my judgement - but this ending was just so small. Esmer is given no absolution, it just didn't feel like this character was resolved. I would have preferred he choose a side and die. Or failing that, have a death where we could feel something for him. However by the point in the book he's killed he's become such a foil for our characters that I can't really grieve at his passing. Farewell Exposition Fairy, sadly we were given no reason to miss you or mourn your end.
Joan... wow. Not much doubt or hesistation was there Thomas? I again guessed Covenant would confront Joan, however I thought Thomas would reach her emotionally and Joan would become cognizant, become aware of what she has become and fry herself with Wild Magic in a scene of pain and redemption. But no... none of that; Thomas just stabs her with the krill. Remember this is Covenant - the man who was horrified by killing five Cavewrights, a man who blasted a concussion of Wild Magic in a blaze of emotional pain when Brinn told him he killed twenty one people of the Clave... I could stub my toe right now and Covenant from the Second Chronicles would feel guilty about it. He just goes to her and kills her - mercy or no, this was written wrongly - as with Roger, he just doesn't seem to care that much - it's his ex-wife man; and while I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there who would count themselves blessed for a chance to stab their ex-wives - Covenant isn't like that. The ending to this character was just not good enough. Once again, nothing resolved.
And Joan herself seems to have suffered a severe retcon. Granted, her memories have been twisted somewhat by a Raver; but still, if she was faking her sorrow and torment at the start of the Second Chronicles then her Oscar is long overdue; and if she was pretending then why bother to hug Thomas when she was "freed" by him selling himself? Surely gratutious gloating would have been more appropriate?

Another flaw of this book is it is so uneven. We go from too much talking to too much action - with no transition whatsoever, which leads to several problems. This makes the book feel like it's three novellas put together. First: The Discussions of "Apocalypse Soon-ish", Second: "Crisis in the Deep", Third, "Death of the Wielder and Redemption of the Builder". It just gives me no chance to get emotionally attacted because it's so lumpen.
This issue with pacing is in part due to the fact that Donaldson has given himself such a tight deadline on Worm ending the world. This necessitates the need for instant teleportation - which is one of the biggest problems with this book... in the First and Second Chronicles the characters travelled together; which allowed them to talk to each other, tell their stories and form bonds. Foamfollower/Covenant, Linden/Covenant, Sunder/Hollian, Linden/Pitchwife etc... we have none of that, which leads me to feel very emotionally uninvested in the characters and their relationships.

In the last three books we, the reader, are expected to care automatically. Jeremiah is a prime example of this; I was hoping last book that we would rescue this kid and have his mind back near the beginning of the book. Then we would have a chance to emotionally bond with him, and finally understand and appreciate why Linden has looked so assidiously to save this boy; but no, we do not get this. Jeremiah only gets his mind back at the end of the book. In a series of books where so much (FAR too much) in put on how Linden is feeling, how dark she is going, the reader need not just justification but also vindication for what she is going through for this boy.
The problem with lack of chance to bond and automatic caring doesn't stop with Jeremiah; the Giants we are also expected to care for when we've been given no bonding time. I reckon any Covenant fan here could tell me the differences between Pitchwife and Seadreamer - the characteristics of Foamfollower and the First. What do we have now? a load of Giants who all do the same thing. I'll give anyone here a dollar that can name all the Giants and give me character descriptions of each off the bat. Who says Giants have a problem with their seed? We've got sextuplets right here.

And Longwrath being sent by the Elohim... what? huh? how? Where am I?
Are you serious? This is wrong for so many reasons. Firstly why would you need a Giant to do your dirty work? You could easily kill her yourself. This is so unlogical it's unreal. I first thought that it was possibly Kassy's wife who sent Longwrath, as Roger mentioned in the last book Kassy taught her to defy time; I was wrong. But the Elohim?! If they wanted her death there's no reason to send a Giant and not go yourself. Even Linden says it! Sure it could be conjectured that they didn't want to put themselves in danger - but what could a Giant stand that the Elohim couldn't? Or that they didn't see the need because they were equal to all things - yet saw the need to take a Giants will and send him after Linden. Ho, who goes there? Who's that in the distance? Oh, why if it isn't Captain Contrivance, newly promoted to Major.
And the deal with the Giants... huh? there's one thing to put some fine print on a contract; quite another to slap on whatever shit you damn well please - next time I sign a contract I'm gonna write on it afterwards the person agreed to give me a million pounds after he blinked 147 times.

Let's move onto another problem I'm having; She Who Must Not be Named - or as she will henceforth be called - Voldemortina. Hi Voldemortina, I'm the first 8 books of Thomas Covenant, have me met? Oh what? You were mentioned in a song espoused by an organisation based on lies and corruption... oh... alright then, erm.. hi.
Now, I thought the idea of a living bane was a good one; and it was written well. However the whole thing with Voldemortina's background, the Creator loving her, and her cheating on him with Foul - So the Creator is the nice guy who builds her Arches, forms worlds, works his ass off - but this isn't good enough for Voldemortina who goes for the whole "bad boy despises everything ever" routine. What is this? The Cosmos Soap Opera? What's next? Desperate Merewives?
I understand Donaldson not wanted to tell us information so as to suprise us - but there's two problems with this. First; after such a long stretching series, throwing something like this into the mix just makes us wonder why it wasn't gone into properly before. Secondly it gives us no chance to empathise with this character - Voldemortina is just another plot device thrown in and we'll not be given the time to get to bond or care about this characters plight.


Also, there's no denying that these are not The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. They are the First Chronicles of Linden Avery. These stories are about Linden's feelings and character progression first and foremost - which is fine... but call a spade a spade please.
There is way too little Covenant in this book; and too much Linden. It's fair to say that Covenant's mind isn't in great condition so it's understandable not getting the full hellfire experience we usually do... but damn, we've been waiting two entire books for him. Stephen, if you're not going to give us Thomas, then why not the Giants? Then we could get to know them; history could be given without exposition - we could learn to differentiate between them. Why not Stave, we could interact with him; get interested between the friction his son and himself - between his views and the Humbled. Instead we don't learn (though I did guess) that Galt is Stave's son until he's dead - therefore who cares?
Donaldson is so locked into Linden's viewpoint even Thomas' is given grudgingly. I find it sad that Donaldson has evidently fallen so much in love with Linden that he's forgotten who his protagonist is.

And Thomas having is fingers stunted just felt so gratitious to me; hurtloam has been used to heal dead nerves before, to even make an eyeless dude see - it could've easily healed Covenant's hands.... just plain gratitious.

When reading this book, with all the exposition we got, I couldn't help but feel that Donaldson has been writing the G.I. for too long - wrong wording perhaps, because it's damn good of him to answer our questions in the insightful way he has done - as so much of the exposition we were given felt as though it was there to forestall questions from fans. This leads to too much information being dumped on us so the story feels even more lumpy.

I could make a few more points, but I'm done for now. I had problems with the fact that it's more about advancing the plot than developing the characters, with the Linden-o-centric writing, the asides to the GI, the comological contrivances, and the unevenness of the book as a whole. And most of all I regret that a book I waited three years for is nowhere close to what I'd hoped for.

But most of all Linden still sucks.

Regarding Longwrath: Let's keep a few things in mind. First, the elohim don't like to leave their home; given the chance, they prefer to deal with problems through proxies, when they bother to deal with them at all.

Second, right now the Land is a pretty dangerous place for the elohim. Never mind that it's probably the only region of the Earth that's claimed the lives of *two* of them (the one who formed the Colossus and Findail). Remember that for most of RotE and FR Linden has had the implied backing of Foul and his allies, all of whom want her (for various reasons) to rouse the Worm. Any elohim who attempted to confront with her would potentially have to deal with:

Kastenessen, who might or might not be able to tear one of them apart, but would certainly try.

Getting caesured right out of reality by Joan "trigger finger" Covenant.

Getting boxed by the croyel-controlled Jeremiah.

A possible confrontation with Lord Foul himself, against whom they are by their own admission effectless.

Not to mention that, given the importance of Linden's freedom, if the elohim had tried to interfere directly, Covenant might well have reached out from the Arch to smack them down.


Thus, using a big, strong giant, whose people absolutely will not kill him, no matter how nutty/dangerous/destructive he gets, seems like a fairly good idea.

One comment:

I would have preferred he choose a side and die.

In essence, he did: his decision to bring not only the ur-viles/Wanyhim but also their manacles ensured Linden's victory, as he knew he was rendering himself impotent.

Borillar wrote:One comment:

I would have preferred he choose a side and die.

In essence, he did: his decision to bring not only the ur-viles/Wanyhim but also their manacles ensured Linden's victory, as he knew he was rendering himself impotent.

And two more words: Race car. Given what it allows in AATE, and given what it will (by extension) almost certainly allow Jeremiah to do in TLD, I can't think of a betrayal big enough to balance out this gift.

I suppose the question that occurs to me now is this: if the ur-viles had the manacles made prior to the start of the Final Chronicles, why did they wait so long to use them?

Revan wrote:In the last three books we, the reader, are expected to care automatically. Jeremiah is a prime example of this; I was hoping last book that we would rescue this kid and have his mind back near the beginning of the book. Then we would have a chance to emotionally bond with him, and finally understand and appreciate why Linden has looked so assidiously to save this boy; but no, we do not get this. Jeremiah only gets his mind back at the end of the book. In a series of books where so much (FAR too much) in put on how Linden is feeling, how dark she is going, the reader need not just justification but also vindication for what she is going through for this boy.
The problem with lack of chance to bond and automatic caring doesn't stop with Jeremiah; the Giants we are also expected to care for when we've been given no bonding time. I reckon any Covenant fan here could tell me the differences between Pitchwife and Seadreamer - the characteristics of Foamfollower and the First. What do we have now? a load of Giants who all do the same thing. I'll give anyone here a dollar that can name all the Giants and give me character descriptions of each off the bat. Who says Giants have a problem with their seed? We've got sextuplets right here.

I totally agree with this. I don't care about the Giants, or Jeremiah, or Esmer, or the Humbled. They're meaningless. I don't know them like I knew Pitchwife or Cail or Sunder or Mhoram.

Those characters I do care about were some of the most sparingly used in AATE - Stave, Liand, Anele and the Ramen. Liand and Anele would have all but pointless if they hadn't died, and Stave and Pahni would have been all but pointless if Galt and Liand didn't die, although I will admit that they're reactions to these deaths harkened back to SRD's better days.

Which brings me to another point on which Revan and I seem to agree. In WGW even Findail was allowed some dignity ere the end. Findail, of all people. But Liand and Anele just died in the midst of over 100 pages of constant action that had long become boring and tiresome. Galt got a better death during that entire passage than anyone else, and he was little more than "second Haruchai from the left. And his death was only at all poignant because of his relationship to Stave and what that all meant.

Sure, it wasn't all bad. Unlike Revan, I was touched by Joan's death, although it seemed to come suddenly since I was just getting used to Covenant's voice again (I'll mention Esmer later). This however could never make up for what happened to Elena. There was no dignity in her death, no chance to grieve for her. It was just the author tidying up loose ends. "Better finish her off properly". Yuck!

Which brings me to Esmer, who for me is a prime example of what happens when you sacrifice story in favour of idea. He was nothing but a big fat deus ex macina, who added nothing to the actual tale being told. His death was pretty much as meaningless as everything else he bought to the table, and the entire Last Chronicles would have been better off without him.

Not that he was the only god in the machine. We have all waxed eloquent about our opinions of Linden Avery. I've always enjoyed her as a character, crippled by indecision though she might often be, because I never felt that such crippling was excessive. But in AATE we were flung back and forth between Linden being crippled by indecision/She/concern for Jeremiah/whatever and Linden not being crippled by indecision and acting and not being powerful enough anyway and so the outcome is the same. And therein lies the problem - if Linden isn't usually strong enough to accomplish what she wants to accomplish, then at least give her a backbone. Otherwise the indecision is just another way of prolonging the agony that was AATE.

Why was AATE agony, you ask? Because half there seemed to be no point, and the other half there were so many points it was too much. ROTE had a story. Linden arrives in the Land, she has to figure out what's going on, then she has to find the Staff of Law, then she has to escape the past and get back to the present. FR had one as well - Linden has to follow "Covenant" and figure out what it is about him and Jeremiah that is so wrong, then she has to escape the past (yes, again), and then she has to go to Andelain.

But in AATE, we all have to talk about how we don't know what to do, then we have to fight for almost half the damn book, and then, finally, we get some semblance of plot at the end when Linden and Covenant go their separate ways.

/sigh

I feel very ripped off right now.

No need for me to chime in here.

Fist and Faith wrote:No need for me to chime in here.

How would you know! You haven't read the bloody book!!!!!

Well then really no need...

The funny thing is, I didn't feel this way after ROTE or FR - I actually enjoyed both to varying degrees (FR much more than ROTE). And maybe when I re-read AATE after I get home to NZ it'll seem different and this is all just my mood. But I was not happy.

I think in the end it was the pacing. Most of SRD's works have rise and fall, like a lot of books do. AATE had calm, calm, calm, STORM STORM STORM STORM STORM, clam again, the end. If it had had a more rhythmic, normal pace, then perhaps some events that were overdone wouldn't have been, while others that got unfairly glossed over would have been better.

Credit where it's due though, the first chapter was brilliant, and I really enjoyed both Linden and Covenant's last chapters.

variol son wrote: Why was AATE agony, you ask? Because half there seemed to be no point, and the other half there were so many points it was too much. ROTE had a story. Linden arrives in the Land, she has to figure out what's going on, then she has to find the Staff of Law, then she has to escape the past and get back to the present. FR had one as well - Linden has to follow "Covenant" and figure out what it is about him and Jeremiah that is so wrong, then she has to escape the past (yes, again), and then she has to go to Andelain.

I would respectfully disagree. In AATE, Linden has to find Jeremiah, retrieve him, and free him from the croyel's influence. Then she has to find a way to restore his mind, and Covenant has to deal with Joan.

Point taken. I was just so tired from reading page after page of action that I guess I no longer cared.

It also leaves a hell of a lot to resolve in TLD. It feels like we should only be half way, not three-quarters of the way, through the story.

We shall have to see what a second read accomplishes.

Good posts, VS.

Revan wrote:The first issue which struck me was the Roger and Thomas interaction. So we've been waiting for years for this moment, right? A moment we've been avidly thinking about since we found out that Roger was Foul's lackey... father vs son; what would be said, how would Thomas feel, could Roger be redeemed, will this confrontation bring us layers to Rogers character that we've not had?
So Roger is diminished from being the renegade son of our hero - with all the emotional weighting that would carry - to being a caricature villain with little plausible motivation.

I think we've seen just the tip of the iceberg with them. Which is fine with me because the last book will probably focus on them. I too expected a little more interaction. But they were pretty busy, lol.

Revan wrote: I guessed that the Manacles were for Esmer, though to be honest I theorized that they were to bind him as a new capstone for the Skurj. An anguishing end to an anguished character, very Donaldson like. Now I admit maybe my expectations in this effect my judgement - but this ending was just so small. Esmer is given no absolution, it just didn't feel like this character was resolved. I would have preferred he choose a side and die. Or failing that, have a death where we could feel something for him. However by the point in the book he's killed he's become such a foil for our characters that I can't really grieve at his passing. Farewell Exposition Fairy, sadly we were given no reason to miss you or mourn your end.

"Exposition Fairy"
Yeah, I had bigger plans in my head for those manacles too. I thought they were for Foul or Kat himself! Not just for the mutant Elohim.

Revan wrote: Joan... wow. Not much doubt or hesistation was there Thomas? I again guessed Covenant would confront Joan, however I thought Thomas would reach her emotionally and Joan would become cognizant, become aware of what she has become and fry herself with Wild Magic in a scene of pain and redemption. But no... none of that; Thomas just stabs her with the krill. Remember this is Covenant - the man who was horrified by killing five Cavewrights, a man who blasted a concussion of Wild Magic in a blaze of emotional pain when Brinn told him he killed twenty one people of the Clave... I could stub my toe right now and Covenant from the Second Chronicles would feel guilty about it. He just goes to her and kills her - mercy or no, this was written wrongly - as with Roger, he just doesn't seem to care that much - it's his ex-wife man

I totally disagree with you here.
It was a mercy killing.
There was nothing left of Joan to communicate with and she was just about to die anyway.
I did expect more of an emotional ending but I'm satisfied with it.

Revan wrote: the Giants we are also expected to care for when we've been given no bonding time. I reckon any Covenant fan here could tell me the differences between Pitchwife and Seadreamer - the characteristics of Foamfollower and the First. What do we have now? a load of Giants who all do the same thing. I'll give anyone here a dollar that can name all the Giants and give me character descriptions of each off the bat.

Yeah, good point. Why is that? I think because we haven't heard any personal stories like we did with the Search.

Revan wrote: And Longwrath being sent by the Elohim... what? huh? how? Where am I?
Are you serious? This is wrong for so many reasons. Firstly why would you need a Giant to do your dirty work?

The Elohim do not want to get involved directly. That has been repeated so many times that Longwrath makes sense to me.

Revan wrote: Let's move onto another problem I'm having; She Who Must Not be Named - or as she will henceforth be called - Voldemortina. Hi Voldemortina, I'm the first 8 books of Thomas Covenant, have me met? Oh what? You were mentioned in a song espoused by an organisation based on lies and corruption... oh... alright then, erm.. hi.
Now, I thought the idea of a living bane was a good one; and it was written well. However the whole thing with Voldemortina's background, the Creator loving her, and her cheating on him with Foul - So the Creator is the nice guy who builds her Arches, forms worlds, works his ass off - but this isn't good enough for Voldemortina who goes for the whole "bad boy despises everything ever" routine. What is this? The Cosmos Soap Opera? What's next? Desperate Merewives?
I understand Donaldson not wanted to tell us information so as to suprise us - but there's two problems with this. First; after such a long stretching series, throwing something like this into the mix just makes us wonder why it wasn't gone into properly before. Secondly it gives us no chance to empathise with this character - Voldemortina is just another plot device thrown in and we'll not be given the time to get to bond or care about this characters plight.

Although I see many of your points (and laughed at your humor) I wonder how else SRD could have introduced any new characters without us reacting like you (and to a degree I am too).

Revan wrote:Also, there's no denying that these are not The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. They are the First Chronicles of Linden Avery. These stories are about Linden's feelings and character progression first and foremost - which is fine... but call a spade a spade please.
There is way too little Covenant in this book; and too much Linden. It's fair to say that Covenant's mind isn't in great condition so it's understandable not getting the full hellfire experience we usually do... but damn, we've been waiting two entire books for him.

.

I 100% agree with you there!

Revan wrote:And Thomas having is fingers stunted just felt so gratitious to me; hurtloam has been used to heal dead nerves before, to even make an eyeless dude see - it could've easily healed Covenant's hands.... just plain gratitious.

This was a little weak on Donaldson's part too.
I'm hoping the need for TC's leprosy will be explained in the last book.

Revan wrote:But most of all Linden still sucks.

Yes.
Although I liked the fact that she was ready to blast he sh#t out of Infelice.....finally. That was a change for her.

I think in the end it was the pacing. Most of SRD's works have rise and fall, like a lot of books do. AATE had calm, calm, calm, STORM STORM STORM STORM STORM, clam again, the end. If it had had a more rhythmic, normal pace, then perhaps some events that were overdone wouldn't have been, while others that got unfairly glossed over would have been better.

I agree completely with this. The rescue of Jeremiah and escape from the Lost Deep went on far, far too long - it was just sensory overload. And then the calms were, at some point, SO slow - seemingly endless passages of hunger and thirst and the details of fetching water and finding safe places to make camp, etc. Which then in turn undercut the tension of "we've only got a handful of days until the Worm arrives and the world ends!"

I understand a lot of the criticisms in the above posts, [though don't agree, mostly]....but this:

High Lord Tolkien wrote:

Revan wrote:And Thomas having is fingers stunted just felt so gratitious to me; hurtloam has been used to heal dead nerves before, to even make an eyeless dude see - it could've easily healed Covenant's hands.... just plain gratitious.

This was a little weak on Donaldson's part too.
I'm hoping the need for TC's leprosy will be explained in the last book.

I'm pretty sure is answered, at least in part. Don't recall the exact places, maybe on second read through I'll come back and quote them, but healing by hurtloam [probably full healing by Linden, too] won't just fix his nerves...it will stitch his mind back together. He'll lose ALL the memories of Arch-time, and he seems to need them.

I did make my original post regarding this book a lot more in depth; however the watch logged me out and that post was cast into the Deep. Voldemortina is probably munching on it right now. I didn't have the energy to go into my points in as much depth as before. Anyways...

starkllr wrote:

I think in the end it was the pacing. Most of SRD's works have rise and fall, like a lot of books do. AATE had calm, calm, calm, STORM STORM STORM STORM STORM, clam again, the end. If it had had a more rhythmic, normal pace, then perhaps some events that were overdone wouldn't have been, while others that got unfairly glossed over would have been better.

I agree completely with this. The rescue of Jeremiah and escape from the Lost Deep went on far, far too long - it was just sensory overload. And then the calms were, at some point, SO slow - seemingly endless passages of hunger and thirst and the details of fetching water and finding safe places to make camp, etc. Which then in turn undercut the tension of "we've only got a handful of days until the Worm arrives and the world ends!"

Like I said

Another flaw of this book is it is so uneven. We go from too much talking to too much action - with no transition whatsoever, which leads to several problems. This makes the book feel like it's three novellas put together. First: The Discussions of "Apocalypse Soon-ish", Second: "Crisis in the Deep", Third, "Death of the Wielder and Redemption of the Builder". It just gives me no chance to get emotionally attacted because it's so lumpen.
This issue with pacing is in part due to the fact that Donaldson has given himself such a tight deadline on Worm ending the world. This necessitates the need for instant teleportation - which is one of the biggest problems with this book... in the First and Second Chronicles the characters travelled together; which allowed them to talk to each other, tell their stories and form bonds. Foamfollower/Covenant, Linden/Covenant, Sunder/Hollian, Linden/Pitchwife etc... we have none of that, which leads me to feel very emotionally uninvested in the characters and their relationships.

The whole teleportation, beam me up Scotty powers we have in this novel make it so uneven. when we get information we get too much that it feels like a lot like being smacked repeatedly over the head with a Collins Dictionary. When we get action we get too much also; and therefore it can lose it's tension and meaning. In the first books the characters went on a journey, and the action arose around that journey; The Battle of Soaring Woodelven, First Battle of Covenant and Clave, the Sandgorgons and Bharthirrealm... in this the author seems so intend on keeping us guessing and making the book full of suspense that he's lost the necessary flow that allows tension and excitement to build up to a climatic point... action and scenes where we would have been excited to see appear out of the blue; leaving us stumped.

Let me also go mention another point regarding what I said here:

the Giants we are also expected to care for when we've been given no bonding time. I reckon any Covenant fan here could tell me the differences between Pitchwife and Seadreamer - the characteristics of Foamfollower and the First. What do we have now? a load of Giants who all do the same thing. I'll give anyone here a dollar that can name all the Giants and give me character descriptions of each off the bat.

Yeah, good point. Why is that? I think because we haven't heard any personal stories like we did with the Search.

I'll tell you why; because they are all the same. Donaldson made an error here imo; he has made them all Swordmainnir, which allows us no differentiation at all.
In the Second Chronicles they all had different roles; the First commanded and kicked ass, Seadreamer directed the Search, Pitchwife fixed the ship and satified the Firsts' need for Giant booty. etc; they had different fixed roles - which enabled their emotions and characters to come across in not just who they were but what they did. The current Giants have no such distinction.

And seriously, why not use the Giants as a view point for a few chapters? It'll give us a rest from Linden's feelings and Covenants limited viewpoint and allow us to know these characters better. Donaldson did this in the First Chronicles. Anyone here who would say they disliked the chapters from Mhoram PoV? - If so I have some Jamaican hot sauce I'd like to throw in your eyes - these chapters were great. Whilst I grant that Mhoram was in a different place than Covenant and thus no-one from the real world could give us a PoV there, I would say we are long past the whole "Only people from the 'real' world can have a PoV' idea. A viewpoint from one of the Giants could enable us to care about these characters so much more: hell it could even bestow upon me the chance to discern their names and characteristics.

And Galts death... again this was wrong - not for the death itself, it was done well. The whole "he's Stave son" could have been written so much better. The Humbled are all as interchangable as our Giant friends at this point. By the time we learn he is Stave's son, he is dead! Why not let us know before hand, so we could feel horror for Stave when we realised Galt was killed - rather the author expects us to care retroactively when we're informed of his parentage.

I think we've seen just the tip of the iceberg with them. Which is fine with me because the last book will probably focus on them. I too expected a little more interaction. But they were pretty busy, lol.

I don't care how busy they were. Just a sentence or two on how they regard each other - Roger seeing his dad for pretty much the first time, Thomas looking at his son whose gone evil, the look in their eyes, their facial expressions... Donaldson could have easily written in a few sentences to articulate the enormity of these two characters coming together for the first time.

As far as pacing... seriously, what do you guys want? Consider: it's the End of the World. But it'll take a few days. The fact that All Things Are Ending would add a sensory overload, too many things to deal with to overwhelm the participants...I mean, what else do you expect? That people will be able to take things in stride? No, it's chaos! It's like the battles in the LotRs movies... when the fighting starts, there's just chaos and you... can...not...follow... everything at first.

Now for the second portion, the End will come after a few days. What does this do? This gives people a chance to breathe also, to look around them, to have more mundane concerns,... possibly to doubt even that the Worm is coming. It's very surreal, and logically follows given the circumstances. Like the battles analogy, when the battle is over or stopped temporally, people have time to prepare and consider their condition. I mean, the Land is not being nuked by nuclear weapons... they have the time to cry.

Re the Humbled: Stave said in an earlier book that he has "sons" among the Masters. That is, I believe he said "sons", plural; I may be misremembering. In any case, the impression I got then was that all three of the Humbled were his sons. So the revelation that Galt was his kid was no shock to me.

aliantha wrote:Re the Humbled: Stave said in an earlier book that he has "sons" among the Masters. That is, I believe he said "sons", plural; I may be misremembering. In any case, the impression I got then was that all three of the Humbled were his sons. So the revelation that Galt was his kid was no shock to me.

I clocked it when Galt's attack on him was more aggressive than the other Haruchai's; there had to be a reason - so taking into account with what Stave said, I assumed Galt had more personal reason to be offended by Stave's declaration against the Haruchai and for Linden.