Kevin's Watch

I'm finding it very difficult to read, it just seams all over the place, fragmented. I feel frustrated and disapointed. does anyone feel the same?

How far are you into it? I do find it a difficult read. It's not a page-turner. It doesn't pull me along with its pace or suspense. It's an ordeal to get through--though I think a rewarding ordeal. I'm a little over halfway now, and I've resigned myself to accepting that Donaldson isn't editing himself as much as he did in the first two Chronicles. He's letting it all out. It feels like he's writing for himself, rather than for his audience. He's not worried if we get tired or bored or frustrated. He has something to say, and he's going to say it no matter how many words or how much repetition it takes. While this leads to many sparkling nuggets of prose, it makes for a very tiresome, disjointed narrative. I think there's a very good reason why his books don't sell the way they used to: they're not as much fun, and require more effort from the readers. Granted, his goal probably isn't to provide "fun." But that doesn't mean it's unreasonable for readers to get frustrated with him. I'm sure he wants these books to be an ordeal, or he wouldn't be writing them this way. He wants us to feel the pain of these characters. The Last Chronicles is for the diehard fan, readers with a bit more endurance than fans of other authors.

It's not the Last Chronicles that I was hoping for, but it's still better than 99% of the fantasy out there.

jackgiantkiller wrote:I'm finding it very difficult to read, it just seams all over the place, fragmented. I feel frustrated and disapointed. does anyone feel the same?

kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20056&start=0

Zarathustra wrote: It's not the Last Chronicles that I was hoping for, but it's still better than 99% of the fantasy out there.

You said it. The worst SRD novel (which really, doesn't exist) is better than almost anything you find out there. I want, I CRAVE a fantasy novel/series that makes me think, makes me FEEL, and yes, AATE isn't perfect but its still something worth reading. Those last two chapters alone were worth slogging through some of the overlong narrative at the beginning of the book.

No other fantasy series I've ever read equals any of the Covenant books.

Starkin wrote:

Zarathustra wrote: It's not the Last Chronicles that I was hoping for, but it's still better than 99% of the fantasy out there.

You said it. The worst SRD novel (which really, doesn't exist) is better than almost anything you find out there. I want, I CRAVE a fantasy novel/series that makes me think, makes me FEEL, and yes, AATE isn't perfect but its still something worth reading. Those last two chapters alone were worth slogging through some of the overlong narrative at the beginning of the book.

No other fantasy series I've ever read equals any of the Covenant books.

In regards to the First and Second Chronicles, I'm in complete agreement; mostly. Certainly there are other fantasy books that make me feel more in different ways, provoke different feelings of fondness... none have had the impact in my life that the Chronicles have.

Revan wrote:

Starkin wrote:

Zarathustra wrote: It's not the Last Chronicles that I was hoping for, but it's still better than 99% of the fantasy out there.

You said it. The worst SRD novel (which really, doesn't exist) is better than almost anything you find out there. I want, I CRAVE a fantasy novel/series that makes me think, makes me FEEL, and yes, AATE isn't perfect but its still something worth reading. Those last two chapters alone were worth slogging through some of the overlong narrative at the beginning of the book.

No other fantasy series I've ever read equals any of the Covenant books.

In regards to the First and Second Chronicles, I'm in complete agreement; mostly. Certainly there are other fantasy books that make me feel more in different ways, provoke different feelings of fondness... none have had the impact in my life that the Chronicles have.

*********SPOILER ALERT*********


I think the First Chrons are particularly poignant, even life-changing. The next two Chrons are like tributes to the first. But they are all different.

I read time and again that people find AATE difficult to follow. However, in my case, the book became a page-turner during the Lost Deep sequence. How could anybody not be interested in that? Every time I had to pause in my reading to do something else I hurried back to the book again as soon as possible.

The first 5 chapters or so were not exactly page-turners. Even though I knew from the spoilers here that Linden was going to give up the staff and ring, it still struck me emotionally. If Donaldson can so affect me even after the spoilers, then I would say he did his job as an author. Linden's response to her own renunciation of power was also striking. It was one of those times when I wanted to come back here and tell everybody "See, toldja Linden is addicted to power!" But I didn't.

The Harrow being in a hurry to get going reflects the impatience of the readers to move the story along. I was led to think, at the time, that Donaldson must have something big planned for us at the end of all this waiting and debating in Andelain, or else this is going to be a very big let-down.

But it wasn't, and the Lost Deep sequence held my rapt attention for the next few chapters. I knew from spoilers that there would be an Immortal, but no idea of what kind of creature. I had assumed something more human-like, and willing to engage in intelligent conversation with the questors.

After this sequence, I found that the best thing to do was to slow down and savor the words. Even if the story is plodding at this point, I for one have the ability to appreciate Donaldson's myriad metaphors, and to have fun researching the unknown metaphoric words on the internet. Some of these words I had to look up more than once. "Fuligin" comes to mind (it basically means "black wool"). And I never tire of his metaphors because they are actually quite good. Like snowflakes, no two Donaldson metaphors are exactly alike, but equally beautiful.

The battle with Roger and the Cavewights held many surprises, although I'll admit to being disappointed that Donaldson used the same plot device two books in a row. Liand's end caught me completely off-guard. But at least Anele's true purpose was finally revealed through it. It seems that Donaldson enjoys throwing his readership completely for a loop, and I fully expect more of the same three (long) years from now.

We are given Linden's waking up, and then Covenant's stark refusal of her. The last gave me something to think about while I read along, as I kept looking out for clues as to Covenant's strange behavior toward Linden. Of course, lepers don't want to be touched, and Covenant is playing the leper role to the hilt this time, but for reasons opposite to the one from the First Chrons. I think everybody should realize that this is a complete role-reversal for Covenant although he is still using his disease to make this work. The Covenant/Haruchai resemblance remains the same from the First Chrons, but again for different reasons. Whereas before, Covenant didn't want to feel because he didn't want to believe, in the present Chrons Covenant doesn't want to feel because of the immensity of the task ahead: Joan, Sandgorgons, skurj, Kastenessan, Ravers, Lord Foul, the Worm; but Joan comes first.

I think many opinions about this latest book will turn around over time, and most of the "let-down" was caused primarily by the anticipation generated by the long wait.

Edit - It's going to take some time to absorb this new book and to appreciate its virtues in order to dispel the nay-sayers. Three years should be plenty sufficient, don't you think?

Kinda an awkward question after your previous topic posted here, huh, Jack?

For me, it was a page turner from the beginning to end.

From the title being in present tense ("I'm finding ...") and the first post being very general nature, I understood the perspective of this thread to be on-going, and not yet finished--or at the very least, non-spoilerish. Just for future reference, if the title of the thread doesn't explicitly clue us in that the thread deals with spoilers or the end of the book, then please warn us at the top of your post that you will be spoiling things, so I can skip over (which I did as soon as I read:

Spoiler

Roger and the Cavewights

That was a close one!). Or better yet, spoiler tags! I'm just in chapter two of the second half, but I've managed so far to participate in this forum and avoid spoilers due to the titles of threads. Thank you!

Orlion wrote:Kinda an awkward question after your previous topic posted here, huh, Jack?

Hah! I totally missed that. Man, this guy's got some balls! Or maybe it's a parody post?

Zarathustra wrote:From the title being in present tense ("I'm finding ...") and the first post being very general nature, I understood the perspective of this thread to be on-going, and not yet finished--or at the very least, non-spoilerish. Just for future reference, if the title of the thread doesn't explicitly clue us in that the thread deals with spoilers or the end of the book, then please warn us at the top of your post that you will be spoiling things, so I can skip over (which I did as soon as I read:

Spoiler

Roger and the Cavewights

That was a close one!).

In my own defense, I've been keeping most of my spoilers obscure, but not always. That Roger was rounding up the Cavewights for a special purpose was stated by Esmer immediately after Roger's gambit in the Lost Deep failed, and you were already beyond that point, correct?

Esmer said:

“In his greed for eternity, he fears that the Wildwielder’s son will be forever lost to him. Even now, he summons an army of Cavewights to join his efforts to reclaim the boy—and to confirm that no impossible twist of fate may retrieve you from ruin.”

I can place a spoiler alert at the beginning of my comments in threads such as this, but I personally find the black spoiler bars (such as the one in my own sig) to be annoying.
So I'll edit my original post with a spoiler alert.

jackgiantkiller wrote:I'm finding it very difficult to read, it just seams all over the place, fragmented. I feel frustrated and disapointed. does anyone feel the same?

As usual, I took my que from the first paragraph of the book. There are no " new " words in it. Its off in a direction totally unexpected. There is alliteration but it seems the hard " k" and " th" sound intrudes upon it. What I'm getting at is that ,,the first paragraph gave me a sense that the remaining book would be different. The first paragraph flows but its slow eloquence fits the described. Perhaps the readers " mind" or perception, the author signals to be expanded. With that expansion, perhaps the fragmented can be seen to be " connected".A " patience" would be required ,as did the first paragraph require, in order to grasp the vastness of what the author describes and then applies to the singular.

I found this approach.definitely a slower read with more rumination of thought than the first read of SRD's works usually allowed by myself, pays off , especially in the last 3rd of the book.

The author seems to use another device to slow the reader down,,to stop the reader in its tracks and make the reader go back over a sentence again. Its the awkward structure of several sentences thru-out the book that I refer to. It at first seems he left a word out. Then upon a re-read..with an empahsis placed on another word than one would assume, the sentence makes sense. I noticed this " motif" if you will, used more than once or twice in the book. Again, the author toys with how we habitually read..the assumptions we make, and then pulls the rug out from underneath us, forces us to go back and get it right. Its basically what he did with us in FR with TC and Jerry,,just in different way.

Yes, AATE is a different read,,but again, thats the point. Against All Things Ending is the Idea of Change..and the author suggests a changed read,,right there in the first paragraph...imho.

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote: In my own defense, I've been keeping most of my spoilers obscure, but not always. That Roger was rounding up the Cavewights for a special purpose was stated by Esmer immediately after Roger's gambit in the Lost Deep failed, and you were already beyond that point, correct?

Yeah, I was beyond that point. I have no idea if jack was. He doesn't seem to have been back to his own thread.

Anyway, I quit reading at that point, so I didn't realize your spoiler was obscure. Thanks for the consideration.

Lurch, very good points. I agree that it is intentional, that Donaldson wants to slow us down and not make it easy on us. I think this book has some of the best writing he has ever done, though I don't think it's close to being the best story he has ever done.

lurch wrote:

jackgiantkiller wrote:I'm finding it very difficult to read, it just seams all over the place, fragmented. I feel frustrated and disapointed. does anyone feel the same?

As usual, I took my que from the first paragraph of the book. There are no " new " words in it. Its off in a direction totally unexpected. There is alliteration but it seems the hard " k" and " th" sound intrudes upon it. What I'm getting at is that ,,the first paragraph gave me a sense that the remaining book would be different. The first paragraph flows but its slow eloquence fits the described. Perhaps the readers " mind" or perception, the author signals to be expanded. With that expansion, perhaps the fragmented can be seen to be " connected".A " patience" would be required ,as did the first paragraph require, in order to grasp the vastness of what the author describes and then applies to the singular...

In the first paragraph I found the only instances of alliteration in this last single sentence:

Across the ages, he had wielded his singular self in defense of Law and life.

As for the first chapter, at first I found it to be stylistically show-offish, and turgid, as if Donaldson were trying to prove himself worthy of the present novel. It is more likely however that Donaldson only felt that the scene in Andelain deserved as profound a prose as he could muster forth. After all, it is not every day that a Timewarden is brought back to Earth, and resurrected.

well, I;ve just finished it this minute. So here's my fresh opinion.....

In thought the first few chapters were grim. Dark, turgid and overly depressing. yep, we get it TC is bust, Linden is just morose.

I'm sick of Linden as a character. I read these books for TC, he's a true dude.47

What I couldnt' accept is that for half the book there was no discussion as to why COvenant didnt; want his ring back. THe explanation was thrown in almost incidentally later on. Didnt' convince me.

Overall, I'd give it a 6/10. NOt bad, but hard going in parts. FR was better.

I get sick of reading page after page about characters procrastinating in rcok strewn barren landscapes. YEah, great, but we got enough of than in Runes.

I reallyu hope that TLD sees TC kicking ackside all over the place, wielding white gold like a turbo charged AK47!!

I just finished AATE last night, raced through it pretty quickly, will no doubt have to go back and read through some passages again to gain their full import.

Personally, I found it to be the most enjoyable and satisfying book of the LC so far (hence devouring the book like a Worm).

Finally we were able to get *some* resolution and clarity.
The build-up of cryptic clues and murky motivations was starting to wear me down; I genuinely feared I was going to dislike this book after most of FR had left me underwhelmed and frustrated at times.
But for me, AATE largely delivered on the seemingly endless groundwork laid in the first two books of the LC.

What's more, I had at least three, four, maybe five 'wow' moments in the book, those SRD instants where you find your heart increases it's bpm and the words on the page burn in your mind.

I'm only sorry that the ride is over for another 3 years, because the story being revealed in the LC has won me over, and I'm desperate to partake in it's conclusion ..

I'd be interested to know which moments in AATE you considered the "wow" moments.

hamako wrote:I get sick of reading page after page about characters procrastinating in rcok strewn barren landscapes.

I'm in that section now, and hating it. Elsewhere (Reading Along thread) I said that these times when Donaldson lets the story breathe are the heart of the book for me, but now I'm just bored by the sleeping/eating/talking/procrastinating. Chapter 2 of Part 2 is just pointless.

Borillar wrote:I'd be interested to know which moments in AATE you considered the "wow" moments.

For me, most of chapter one was an extended "wow" moment. The whole thing was amazing. Chapter 2 was also impressive. And then the end of each subsequent chapter was pretty good until they actually started their Quest. Since then, I wouldn't say there has been a single "wow" moment for me, except in the sense, "Wow, that was a lost opportunity for a really good scene."

I'd be interested to know which moments in AATE you considered the "wow" moments.

really ? sure - but bear in mind they are 'my' "wow" moments, they may not have thrilled everyone like they did myself - but they were moments which recalled to me why I loved TCoTC in the first place :

ok, so working backwards from the end :

SPOIL-ers !

> The entire last chapter was one of my favorite sequences in the chronicles. Easily my favourite chapter of the LC.
I do have some complaints about Joan's overall character development, but really the chapter couldn't have been any more compelling to me.
Specifically, the horrific condition of Joan was beautifully contrasted with TC's serene (but brief) recollection of the Forestals - and their ability to reach him through that (tainted) memory was interesting.
The moment when Branl and Clyme appeared to TC in the caesure took me by suprise and I drew a sharp intake of breath. *
Also, TC's final gambit of calling upon the Ranyhyn was a great callback to past times when he has summoned the great horses to bail him out.
His refusal to ride despite the oncoming Tsunami was almost comical, being unceremoniously dragged along by the haruchai was the final indignity !
The last couple of pages had a melancholy vibe that really resonated with me, these three lonely figures witnessing the Worm's havoc

> a brief TC memory of Mhoram !! (along with Loric, Berek, some demi-mage dude, Cail and the Theomach)

> TC conversing with Branl on their trip was pretty good too and reminiscent of some of my favorite moments in the chronicles, two characters engaged in a stubborn philosophical debate

> Jeremiah's awakening was another wonderful moment. He's been a frustrating character, almost Vain-like in his blankness, throughout the LC.
The attempt to restore him as Linden's company battled Roger and the Cavewights was exciting, I'm not sure at what point my subconcious desire to see Jeremiah freed had grown so much.
Maybe when Linden's attempt to revive Jeremiah failed I began to realise that I wanted to see him whole again.
And the manner in which he brought himself out of his stasis was eerie and magical, the scene was beautifully set out.

> the croyel - SRD has always done a nice line in horror-fantasy when he wants to imo. Some of my fave stuff in TCoTC involved plot strands that had the vibe of a classic horror tale, e.g. the downfall of the Giants (Hoerkin, the lurker, Shetra's death, the growing dread as the company finds the outskirts of coerci seemingly deserted, the riven skulls of Giants - it was scary stuff !).
the croyel was a horrific creation. Granted we first encountered croyel in TOT, and FR expanded on the croyel's malice and capabilities even more.
But in AATE SRD really went to town with the horrible little succubus, and I enjoyed every minute of it.
Using Jeremiah's body and voice to mock and degrade Linden and company, grinning maliciously with it's dire fangs, always just one tired arm away from sinking then back into his host's throat - I had a very strong image of the croyel's evil. Dude had some strong lore too ...

> Esmer's tragic end. I've read a lot of negative comments about Esmer's character, he's a mere plot device etc - I quite liked him throughout the LC; he was such an extreme and intense character. His desire for his own death came as somewhat of a jolt to me, he implored Linden to kill him in the Lost Deep, and when finally manacled he once again asked her to put him out of his misery. In the end of course, Stave performed the mercy killing.
Even as far back as the early chapters of FR he was hinting to Linden at how to subdue him; he was the one who brought the existence of the manacles to light in the first place !
Imagine the scale of Kastenessen's anguish ..

I can't be bothered writing any more for now, but I'm sure there were a few other "wow" moments. I have half-assedly re-read RotE and FR, i.e. just picked through passages and the odd chapter, but I can see myself giving AATE a re-read pretty soon ...

* people have argued that the Humbled are generic haruchai, but I'd argue that apart from perhaps Bannor, Brinn, Cail, Tull and Stave we've seen many haruchai who exhibit the same characteristics. But a lot of the haruchai over the course of the chronicles have defined themselves by their actions, something I'm sure they'd be happy to be remembered by.
We remember Morin because he played a big part in the original retrieval of the SoL in LFB. We remember Korik, Sill and Doar because they succumbed to arrogance, thinking they were strong enough to bear the Illearth Stone. We remember Hergrom because he was able to resist Kasreyn's compulsion to reveal Nom's name, only to face the ferocious sandgorgon to his downfall anyway.
I'd argue that the actions of Galt, Clyme and Branl are comparable with the haruchai that I've just mentioned, and they have the potential to be remembered as some of the best-written haruchai characters in TCoTC

When it takes 150 pages for a group of folks to move from one spot in Andelain, I get bored. That's just me, folks. I put it down. Maybe later, when I find something even MORE boring, I'll pick it up. I know! I'll go turn on Dancing with the Stars! That oughta do it!