Kevin's Watch

That Galt was Stave's son.
I mean, OK? There is just too much of this in the series. The details that come out.
It might lead some poignancy to what comes after, and maybe when you reread from the beginning, knowing Galt is Stave's son, you might pick up on SOMETHING to denote a connection.
But the Humbled were, to me, interchangeable up until just a little bit before Galt's death and it seemed at that point that SRD made it seem like Galt was cutting Stave some slack the others weren't. Just a touch.
But if it had been Branl who died and Stave said, "He was my son," i'd have had the same flat response.

Agreed. Can't help feeling that, despite the intransigence and emotional flatness of the Haruchai, something more should not have been made of this. There was more impact when Stave originally revealed that he had sons who were still Masters from whom he was now ostracised! Even Linden had so much on her plate at that point (Liand's death, Anele's death, massacre of cavewights) that even she was not as overwhelmed by the revelation as she would otherwise have been.

I pretty much expected it; but wasn't there quite a bit of speculation in these very forums about the possiblity?

At least, I think it was in these forums that I got the idea that one or more of the Humbled were Stave's offspring.

hhmm..as noted, somewhere in FR it was suggested (?) that Stave had blood in the Humbled..but I go further than that. Yes,,the sequence of events was bloody quick, so that Galt, was Staves son, was just one in a line that seemed to come to a dizzying halt with Stave granting Esmers last wish. There was noted, that Stave shed a tear..a major change there,,and with that came the ability to end Esmer's pitiful pleading. Quite the opening up of the stoic's heart. Again, there is that...Magnificence..convulsive beauty..with little if any regards to good or evil. Stave felt Esmers plea.

Basically the author does the same thing with the Liand/Anele/Croyel deaths. Fascinating..how Linden was powerless in restoration in all these cases. They Had to Die..

On a side note...out of the blue, I heard recently some one talking about Teddy Roosevelt..the man with the Big Stick, bully pulpit,,rough riders,,all that. But when he learned of his favorite sons death in WW1..he was forever changed, and never fully recovered from that loss. So..imho..that Galt was Staves son wasn't the full point,,the full message..That Stave witnessed his own son's death ,,and that Stave will never be the same again, was the point...imho.

lurch wrote:On a side note...out of the blue, I heard recently some one talking about Teddy Roosevelt..the man with the Big Stick, bully pulpit,,rough riders,,all that. But when he learned of his favorite sons death in WW1..he was forever changed, and never fully recovered from that loss. So..imho..that Galt was Staves son wasn't the full point,,the full message..That Stave witnessed his own son's death ,,and that Stave will never be the same again, was the point...imho.

We haven't had much time to see that Stave has changed at all.
I think Stave has done so much changing up to this point, I thought his reaction to Galt's passing was the most Haruchai thing about him to date.

I've been thinking that Stave is for Linden the Bloodguard we WANTED Bannor to be. The one who might just once respond to Covenant's exasperation and give a human response. I obviously have to read this scene and the book again for things I may have missed.

But I didn't really see much reaction from Stave, so I had little reaction myself.

lurch wrote:hhmm..as noted, somewhere in FR it was suggested (?) that Stave had blood in the Humbled..but I go further than that. Yes,,the sequence of events was bloody quick, so that Galt, was Staves son, was just one in a line that seemed to come to a dizzying halt with Stave granting Esmers last wish. There was noted, that Stave shed a tear..a major change there,,and with that came the ability to end Esmer's pitiful pleading. Quite the opening up of the stoic's heart. Again, there is that...Magnificence..convulsive beauty..with little if any regards to good or evil. Stave felt Esmers plea.

For me it was the opposite way. It wasn't an act of compassion but of callousness. Esmer's character was an affront to the ideals of the Haruchai, and his whining a distraction and a taint on the moment of his son's ultimate bravery.

There was no compassion in it. Linden didn't want to get her hands dirty so Stave took care of it to be done with Esmer.

SGuilfoyle1966 wrote: I've been thinking that Stave is for Linden the Bloodguard we WANTED Bannor to be. The one who might just once respond to Covenant's exasperation and give a human response. I obviously have to read this scene and the book again for things I may have missed.

Really? I thought Bannor was very human in TPTP, particularly during the Colossus scene. [/quote]

Yes, that scene was a culmination of conflicting emotions. Linden was brought to a frozen stasis by all the conflicting. She was unable to act. Interesting it is,,that Esmer,,the one who brings conflict,,for every good , a bad is soon to be manifested and vis versa, comes across as the one who brought opportunity, opportunity to rise above the good/bad,,opportunity to see and act above the conflicting. Finally,,in offering the ultimate opportunity, Linden is frozen in conflict,,while the one who is morning his son's death, shedding a tear from the eye of the stoic Haruchai,,Is able to see above the binding conflict and do the right thing. YES, I am sure, All the hurt Esmer inflicted on Stave over time was just as much of part of that which motivated Stave , sure was, but consider the irony, that Stave gave Esmer what Esmer wanted most. Seems to me With a completely vulnerable heart , Stave saw above the fray of conflict, and granted Esmers last wish.

Granted, the author keeps a certain amount of " mystery" in that scene. He did not give us a detailed view of all that was going on inside Staves head. Kinda reminds me of a dark cartoon from many years ago; Two guys standing in the rubble of what is left of the world after the Nukes are let loose and the world brought to ruin..the one is saying to the other.." Its always the guy you least suspect.."..Stave was the least suspected, yet his emotional state brought forth a " win win"..There is a sense of transcendence..a feel of mystical..in that scene. ..imho.

Did they reveal if his first name is John?


*rimshot*

Who would that be?

That would be John Galt, the redeemer and hero of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged...the one who built a motor that converts static atmospheric energy into kinetic energy...the one who brought about the death and rebirth of the human spirit...the one who stopped the motor of the world so it could be remade and restarted...

...that guy...

yea..but you forgot the question thru out the book...Who is John Galt? Snuck one by did I? Abit of converting static into kinetic on my own part? Dead the spirit only for rebirth? Stopped the motor so it would be restarted? Yea, every joke is a Ayn Rand story..and vis versa..80...

oh well..a joke dissected dies on the operating table...W. Allen.

After RotE and FR I even suspected that all 3 of the Humbled were Stave's sons.

amanibhavam wrote:After RotE and FR I even suspected that all 3 of the Humbled were Stave's sons.

Nice to see you around!

I had the same impression after FR -- that all three of the Humbled were Stave's sons.

I had a feeling there might be something like that going on as well.
But when we get the reveal, well. Just did nothing for me.
Maybe when I reread. Hope so.

SGuilfoyle1966 wrote:

lurch wrote:On a side note...out of the blue, I heard recently some one talking about Teddy Roosevelt..the man with the Big Stick, bully pulpit,,rough riders,,all that. But when he learned of his favorite sons death in WW1..he was forever changed, and never fully recovered from that loss. So..imho..that Galt was Staves son wasn't the full point,,the full message..That Stave witnessed his own son's death ,,and that Stave will never be the same again, was the point...imho.

I've been thinking that Stave is for Linden the Bloodguard we WANTED Bannor to be. The one who might just once respond to Covenant's exasperation and give a human response. I obviously have to read this scene and the book again for things I may have missed.

But I didn't really see much reaction from Stave, so I had little reaction myself.

Bannor showed that "human response" in LFB when he followed Covenant into Drools cavern instead of revealing himself. Even though he was sworn to protect Ur-Lord Covenant, he would rather break his Bloodguard oath then serve a foe of the land.

There was so much hapenning at the time of Galt's death and Stave's reveal that not much time could be spared thinking about that particular event.
I was touched by Stave's reaction to his Son's death though - I'd never seen a haruchai respond to anyone's death like that before.

Though something that bugs me is, well, did he HAVE to die? I mean, he could have turned so that the axe hit him at a 30-50 degree angle instead of straight in his back. He could have moved Jeremiah so that the Croyel got hit by the axe - who knows what would have happened then? possibly just rebounded off the croyel. He could have even moved himself, Jeremiah and the croyel a stride to the left or right, meaning the axe missed everyone..