Kevin's Watch

At present, I believe the following is the list of the Insequent mentioned, and their fates.

Theomach --killed by Brinn
Mahdoubt -- killed by Harrow
Vizard -- killed by harrow
Ardent -- killed by Harrow
Auriference -- eaten by SWMNBN
Harrow -- Killed by Roger

So, that's all of them, all dead. There are other lurking somewhere, who gave their powers to the Ardent. Will we hear from them? Will Donaldson lean on their wild card powers in the last dark, or are we done with their brand of crazy? I thought he'd need them for more time travel/teleport shenanigans, but I suppose an awakened Jeremiah makes that unnecessary.

I suspect that as a group, they need a lesson in their attempts at, and defining, "perfection". No such thing and they need to knock it off. They need to be redefined. I'd like to see them re-orientated towards Magnificence.

Fuzzy_Logic wrote:At present, I believe the following is the list of the Insequent mentioned, and their fates.

Theomach --killed by Brinn
Mahdoubt -- killed by Harrow
Vizard -- killed by harrow
Ardent -- killed by Harrow
Auriference -- eaten by SWMNBN
Harrow -- Killed by Roger

So, that's all of them, all dead. There are other lurking somewhere, who gave their powers to the Ardent. Will we hear from them? Will Donaldson lean on their wild card powers in the last dark, or are we done with their brand of crazy? I thought he'd need them for more time travel/teleport shenanigans, but I suppose an awakened Jeremiah makes that unnecessary.

Not to nitpick (or at least not much), but:

The Mahdoubt was not killed, nor was the Ardent. We don't know their final fate yet. All we know about the Mahdoubt is that she went against the Harrow, thus devolved into madness. The Ardent was also descending to madness. I would not say the Harrow "killed" either of them.

Mahdoubt, Vizard, Ardent lost their life by opposing the precepts of what the Insequents were.

But the Ardent wasn't in direct confrontation but the lack of action due to his geas.
But of all the above, the Ardent showed that an Insequents could attain a "Greatness" by his actions.
(Kinda liked that fatman with the ribbands)

Bryan, I anticipated your objection, but stand by my phrasing. I don't think "interference" can be objectively defined. Insequent *choose* solitude, but there's quite a bit of evidence that they can work together when they desire to. Thus it's not proximity or anything like that that dooms the Mahdoubt and the Ardent; it is the Harrow's will. If he chose to accept the Ardent's interference as assistance, I suspect that he could have spared the Ardent's life.

My questions about the Insequent are where did they come from, how did they get so full of themselves, and why are they so clueless? Perhaps questions 2 and 3 are related.

The Harrow in particular had the most profound disconnect between his perceived and actual abilities. That's kind of refreshing because in real life that happens all the time. But in a world where the least misstep sends you into 7 kinds of shrieking hell, how could these Insequents have flourished?

Well, last thing first...the Harrow was pretty bad-ass...he just wasn't satisfied unless he could be the Head M*F*er In Charge. [Look at the things he DID know and defeat].

And, from what we know so far, these things live thousands of years...sure you get smarter and stronger, but you also have a lot more chances to screw up and/or get over-confident.

But it isn't the opponents will that sends an Insequent round the bend, it's their own action, a kind of suicide...an interesting twist on every action has equal and opposite reaction.

Anyway, I think we'll see a bit more of them, because I just don't believe the revelation that their power has a relation with wild magic is a throw-away.

Yes - the way the insequent seem to be compelled to madness should they interfere with another's plans is very interesting..
Of course those who have been killed outright by more conventional means (such as the Harrow) are to be heard of no more, but i am not so sure about the rest of them..

Harrad wrote:My questions about the Insequent are where did they come from, how did they get so full of themselves, and why are they so clueless? Perhaps questions 2 and 3 are related.

Vraith wrote:And, from what we know so far, these things live thousands of years...sure you get smarter and stronger, but you also have a lot more chances to screw up and/or get over-confident.

But it isn't the opponents will that sends an Insequent round the bend, it's their own action, a kind of suicide...an interesting twist on every action has equal and opposite reaction.

Anyway, I think we'll see a bit more of them, because I just don't believe the revelation that their power has a relation with wild magic is a throw-away.

I also find the Insequent very interesting and I am sure we'll see more of them in TLD. Let's face it, we've only heard about a very few Insequent, but with one exception - the Auriference, who we know next to nothing about, apart from the fact that SHE consumed her - they've all played incredibly important roles.

Others have commented on a potential similarity between the Insequent and the Unfettered Ones - both are solitary and go off to pursue their own speciality/vision/obsession.

However, I think there's a better parallel to be drawn between the Insequent and the Haruchai, for all that The Vizard singlehandedly kicked the entire original Haruchai force's ass without even breaking sweat way back when (a thing which entirely failed to teach the Haruchai any lesson in humility, but which sowed the seeds of their rigid intransigence).

Both the Insequent and the Haruchai are incredibly long-lived, and both are obsessed with their own form of perfection, a thing which risks bringing a dangerously corruptible arrogance and a potential to make ever more doom-laden mistakes, as Vraith points out. Up this thread, Lurch said this about the Insequent:-

lurch wrote:I suspect that as a group, they need a lesson in their attempts at, and defining, "perfection". No such thing and they need to knock it off. They need to be redefined.

Very true, but absolutely equally true of the Masters - the Haruchai also need to be redefined, or rather redefine themselves, as Stave has done.

However, I think the key point that the Insequent are meant to demonstrate is the clear difference between knowledge and wisdom - you could hardly get more knowledgeable than the Insequent after possibly thousands of years of single-minded obsessive study of one subject, but this does not make them wise. Sure, knowledge is one means to power, BUT it doesn't provide any inherent safeguard against its misuse - whether intentional or accidental - by its wielder. Wisdom does.

I've posted elsewhere my views on what SRD is trying to say about the moral paradox of power and the importance of experiential and often agonising learning and I think his portrayal of the Insequent as the flip-side of this particular coin backs this up.

TheFallen wrote:However, I think the key point that the Insequent are meant to demonstrate is the clear difference between knowledge and wisdom.

Absolutely agree with this. So far, the only ones to show true wisdom are the Theomach and the Mahdoubt. The greediness for more knowledge seems to be to much for some of them to handle.

We don't know that the Haruchai, as a people, are "incredibly long-lived." Don't count the Bloodguard in this - they were only long-lived because of the Vow that sustained them.