Kevin's Watch

Yes, Stephen R. Donaldson was recently spotted on his own GI in a question from Eloise Albert:

Mr Donaldson,

...
Just wondering if you've seen this internet program, and your thoughts about the Donaldson/Covenant segment of the show. Is he being truthful when he mentions your irritation?

thisweekin.com/thisweekin-books/this-week-in-books-19-with-j-daniel-sawyer/

Having listened to this interview (it's not with Donaldson but it somewhat concerns him and the Chrons), the relevant section of the video starts just after the 26:00 point.

What I heard was this:

You can't root for Holden Caulfield forever. You kinda like, you get like irritated with him after a while.

(The interviewer has previously compared Covenant to Holden Caulfield, the protagonist of Catcher in the Rye.)

The interviewer also stated that at a luncheon with Donaldson the author seemed irritated at the question of ARCs.

Well, so?

It just seems as if everybody is seeking to get reactions out of these authors. And when a reaction is gotten, people spread it like wildfire particularly if it was grouchy or whatever. Then the rumors fly about how such and such author is a real grouch, and Piers Anthony is an ogre at conventions, etc. Or to the contrary, people will make a point of noticing how "nice" or "pleasant" this or that author is, either from first-hand experience or rumor.

Any thoughts on this phenomenon?

I see it as part of the complexities of idol worship. One some level, we want to humanise our idols, bring them down to our level, personalise them, feel like we have a relatioship with them. So hearing that Donaldson is irritated about something firstly grants him a human emotion we can share in, and secondly provides a comparison point- does what irritates SRD irritate me as well? If we gather several of these pieces of emotive information, we can start pretending like we know our idols, "Oh, SRD, doesn't like such and such, SRD's a big fan of these guys. I agree with him on his environmental stance, but don't know what he sees in karate."

This tendency can be malicious or benevolent, that is, worshippers can pounce on their idols weaknesses or leap to their questionable defence. We can exclaim of photos of skin blemishes as if they were scandals, or brush away allegations of violence. But it's all due to the conflict of wanting to simultaneously hold our heroes above us, and feel like we can relate to them.

I think it is more about being constantly compared to other authors and having every little tiny coincidence pointed out over and over again to make you seem unoriginal that wears on his nerves. The ring, the forests etc. etc. Critics and interviewers, take note, SRD IS original, he was one of the first and best at making his books not so much about the EVENTS but the hero's personal journey and the bad guy's journey and changes and development that SRD stands out from the pack. Not every author can take a self loathing insular rapist leper and make him a guy you love and root for. Not everyone can take a character with absolutely no redeeming qualities (Angus) and make you feel sorry for him, a pathetic character you first feel sorry for, then root for and then make you dislike her in the end (Morn), and a character you like, then hate, then feel sorry for in the end (Nick) and put it all in one series and have it make perfect sense. Donaldson is a genius at character development and throwing his creations into situations which force them to act and change. AND he does this with not just his main characters but with minor ones as well. TC is not Holden, he is so much richer than Holden and will always be so in my mind.

Ok, rant over.

Donaldson also has a style of answering questions that, depending on how you color him, could make him seem like he's trying to come up with the best answer or mentally massaging his eyes and asking himself how he can reach these kids People have a frame that everyone has to fit into or else they're mean or irritated. Never mind that Donaldson constantly makes himself available to answer fans' questions or goes to conventions that he doesn't particularly care for to make himself available to anyone who may want to meet him or sign books even though he doesn't see the point. No, instead what we should focus on is that he's "irritated". Wow... that somehow turned into a rant....

Very interesting Kevin's Watch connection here: The interviewer, Mark Jeffrey, is a member of this board. Mark has attended Elohimfest and the luncheon he refers to, I believe, was one of our get-togethers with SRD. So the question re ARCs was posed by a Watcher, though I can't remember exactly who... I'll, also, bet you dollars to doughnuts that our member longtime member Creator was the one responsible for driving the ARC bidding war on EBay so high, so quickly.

Mark is seen on left hand side behind Caamora and next to some guy named danlo

Damelon, duchess, Fist, birdandbear and Romeo are also among those in the photo.

danlo wrote:Very interesting Kevin's Watch connection here: The interviewer, Mark Jeffrey, is a member of this board. Mark has attended Elohimfest and the luncheon he refers to, I believe, was one of our get-togethers with SRD. So the question re ARCs was posed by a Watcher, though I can't remember exactly who... I'll, also, bet you dollars to doughnuts that our member longtime member Creator was the one responsible for driving the ARC bidding war on EBay so high, so quickly.

Mark is seen on left hand side behind Caamora and next to some guy named danlo

Interesting. The fact that Mark is a member of this forum gives me an excuse to point out an inexcusable error he made during the interview. He stated that the First Chrons books were published from 1976 to around the start of the 1980s. If he's on this forum he should have known better.

Don't be such a freaking nitpicker-he was in the middle of a prolonged interview-nobody's perfect...(well, except for you! )

danlo wrote:I'll, also, bet you dollars to doughnuts that our member longtime member Creator was the one responsible for driving the ARC bidding war on EBay so high, so quickly.

I did get an ARC - but was not involved in the bidding war he mentions! I got one of the first - and just put in an initial bid I didn't think anyone would go over. Pretty sure I got it for under $200.

OK if the REAL guilty party is on this board--reveal yourself!
(at least we got to hear from Creator! Long time my friend-what were your ears burning? )

They were! I am usually here on my Pantheon ID - Madadeva. But it is nice to chat! I hope all is well with you and your family!!

I bought an ARC but I think it was under $200 as well.

Cambo wrote:I see it as part of the complexities of idol worship. One some level, we want to humanise our idols, bring them down to our level, personalise them, feel like we have a relatioship with them. So hearing that Donaldson is irritated about something firstly grants him a human emotion we can share in, and secondly provides a comparison point- does what irritates SRD irritate me as well? If we gather several of these pieces of emotive information, we can start pretending like we know our idols, "Oh, SRD, doesn't like such and such, SRD's a big fan of these guys. I agree with him on his environmental stance, but don't know what he sees in karate."

This tendency can be malicious or benevolent, that is, worshippers can pounce on their idols weaknesses or leap to their questionable defence. We can exclaim of photos of skin blemishes as if they were scandals, or brush away allegations of violence. But it's all due to the conflict of wanting to simultaneously hold our heroes above us, and feel like we can relate to them.

These types of posts are hardest to respond to. So I let it simmer for a few days and decided that it's not about relating to heroes; I don't think it's even about heroes. More likely, it's about knocking someone out of their ivory tower, in this case Donaldson, by exposing a weakness.

But what's the point? Do you know how many times a day I get irritated? Noone cares to write an article about it, or to "knock me out of [my] ivory tower" by proving that I'm human.

No, someone making a big deal about Donaldson being "irritated" is implying that he doesn't have the right to be irritated, and we should be outraged that he would stoop to such a petty emotion.

Because, you know, our being outraged that he's a normal guy is so much more excusable than his being irritated at a fictional character in a fictional book being an ***.

Is Eloise also in that photo?

I'm kinda with what Cambo said. I think that saying such things is an attempt to make it sound like one has a personal relationship with the famous person in question. That said...

I'm not sure I believe it's a statement by Mouseglove--I can't remember his RL name--intended to make us believe SRD is "petty". I don't get any kind of impression that he's trying to imply anything of the sort. Within the context of what he's talking about (people buying SRD ARCs off eBay) he's actually (I believe) showing a degree of regret: he believes SRD doesn't like people purchasing ARC's, he (being the fan he is) couldn't wait and so did so. IMO he's demonstrating his regret for doing something that he believes the author doesn't approve of (although we now know that SRD's opinion on this has changed). To me he's confessing and nothing more. The description of SRD's feelings on the subject--the way he reacted--is nothing more than Mouseglove emphasizing how "bad" he's been (I believe).

As for ARCs at $600: that's not true. I kept an eye on all of them on eBay and believe the highest one went for was about $200. Slight over-exaggeration there....but we've all been known to do that.

Every compulsion is put upon writers to become safe, polite, obedient, and sterile.

Sinclair Lewis

Edit - that quote was especially for Rigel who is on track with me here.

I love the title of this thread!! I mean seriously, what could the guy POSSIBLY have to be irritated with?

Cambo wrote:I see it as part of the complexities of idol worship. One some level, we want to humanise our idols, bring them down to our level, personalise them, feel like we have a relatioship with them. So hearing that Donaldson is irritated about something firstly grants him a human emotion we can share in, and secondly provides a comparison point- does what irritates SRD irritate me as well? If we gather several of these pieces of emotive information, we can start pretending like we know our idols, "Oh, SRD, doesn't like such and such, SRD's a big fan of these guys. I agree with him on his environmental stance, but don't know what he sees in karate."

This tendency can be malicious or benevolent, that is, worshippers can pounce on their idols weaknesses or leap to their questionable defence. We can exclaim of photos of skin blemishes as if they were scandals, or brush away allegations of violence. But it's all due to the conflict of wanting to simultaneously hold our heroes above us, and feel like we can relate to them.

YES. very well-characterized.

I also find it HIGHLY ironic that we are talking about this on a forum devoted exclusively to the topic of "General SRD Discussion."

Linna Heartlistener wrote:I love the title of this thread!! I mean seriously, what could the guy POSSIBLY have to be irritated with?

People asking questions about the Creator?

Horrim Carabal wrote:

Linna Heartlistener wrote:I love the title of this thread!! I mean seriously, what could the guy POSSIBLY have to be irritated with?

People asking questions about the Creator?

heh...and I don't blame him...I betcha even the real creator, if one is, is irritated by billions of people asking questions about him for the last umpteenthousand years.

And every time I see the topic head, I think of Onions.

I just watched the clip and i cant see what the fuss is about.
Artists cant really advocate people aquiring marketing copies of material but i cant imagine SRD loses much sleep over it. The guy in the interview gave a pretty solid thumbs up regarding the book.