Kevin's Watch

Dear Watchers,

Everything that I am about to say has probably been at least hinted at in one form or another, but I thought the perspective of the meta-story, i.e. the story of the story, especially as we look toward The Last Dark, might be especially relevant as a separate topic. So, here it goes.

After reading the post about the possible spoiler for the The Last Dark in the GI, and considering many of the posts that I have read, and thinking especially about what POV means in the Chrons, I think SRD's conceptualization of the story's environment and characters as externalizations of Covenant's mind as he faces his own inner turmoil are central to knowing what is possible to know about the way the story will play out. Not an original thought, per say, but....

Let me throw out a theory here. Where do the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant really begin? Yes, we begin reading about Thomas, but what is the genesis of everything that he experiences? Who teaches him self-loathing? Joan. She is the originator of Despite. She goes insane because of this. Her rejection of Thomas teaches him to despise himself. Linden is already wrestling with self-despite, but becomes enmeshed in TC's story. TC wrestles with health vs. disease in the First Chrons, Linden wrestles with Law vs. destruction in the second. In the Last, we are sort of wrestling with existence itself. Isn't it significant that the stars start to go out after Joan is killed?

I am starting to get lost in my own post, so just let me say that I can buy the POV of the Chrons as always having been TC's, but the reason that he even has a POV is because of Joan.

The Land is an externalization for all of these characters:

Joan can't have her sanity because of her rejection of her diseased husband.

TC can't have a normal life because of his rejection by the real world.

Linden can't be innocent because of inner evil, a result of her absolute rejection of death.

Linden can't have her son because he is trapped in his own mind.

Now, Jeremiah, doesn't even have himself, because of his imposed mental state.

The torch, i.e. POV, of the story has been passed from character to charater, but it has always really been TC's torch. When TC deals with Join, then and only then, can we have the Last Dark.

I promise I haven't been drinking this afternoon! NOT a stellar post.

I find myself wondering if the arch of time will actually survive TLD.

I'm 90% sure the Land is toast.

I'm 80% sure the rest of the Earth will be unmade.

I'm 50/50 on the arch.

And I'm pegging the odds at 15% right now of our own world also biting the dust (in the novel, not in real life ).

Think of the title of the novel..."The Last Dark". Really think about that. Not *A* dark but *THE* last dark. SRD usually is very precise when he uses a word....

Horrim Carabal wrote:I find myself wondering if the arch of time will actually survive TLD.

I'm 90% sure the Land is toast.

I'm 80% sure the rest of the Earth will be unmade.

I'm 50/50 on the arch.

And I'm pegging the odds at 15% right now of our own world also biting the dust (in the novel, not in real life ).

Think of the title of the novel..."The Last Dark". Really think about that. Not *A* dark but *THE* last dark. SRD usually is very precise when he uses a word....

I'm not convinced that there'll be any more scenes set in the 'real world' as all the characters from there seem pretty dead.
But I just thought I'd mention that SD is not always so precise when using words as you might think - and I'll give you an example - 'Fatal Revenant'.

ninjaboy wrote: But I just thought I'd mention that SD is not always so precise when using words as you might think - and I'll give you an example - 'Fatal Revenant'.

Oh, I think he's pretty precise, especially in things like you cite...just not precise in the way one might think/expect.

Similarly, [and I independently thought this, but at least one person, maybe more...I don't read every post everywhere...thought of it faster] The Last Dark might mean the end of all, no light again, ever...OR...it's dark, but this is the last time it will ever be dark like this again...OR...last dark in one place/world, but there are/can/will be others.

I believe the LAnd is going to be saved..
one word..

Jeremiah.


He build doors.
his structure when made from the needed material is said to do anything.
the Elohim fear him, he must have power untold.

So what if he builds a sleep chamber for the worm?
He can build it so the worm goes back to sleep and again become as before and it will not stave off the end but place it back on track.
All he needs is the material.


He then can imprison Foul, then the Ravers.
Create a new durance for the skrug.
Trap the Sandgorgons.
Put SHE into a place where SHE will be satified and most probably release her captives.
I also see that he can resurrect the dead where it doesn't cause havoc.

Anele was the hope of the world.. he preformed his deed. It was to release Jeremiah and Anele imparted his Earthpower to him.

Jeremiah has alot of building to do and he has the time to do it.
He is the person to be Against All Things Ending.

Vraith wrote:

ninjaboy wrote: But I just thought I'd mention that SD is not always so precise when using words as you might think - and I'll give you an example - 'Fatal Revenant'.

Oh, I think he's pretty precise, especially in things like you cite...just not precise in the way one might think/expect.

Similarly, [and I independently thought this, but at least one person, maybe more...I don't read every post everywhere...thought of it faster] The Last Dark might mean the end of all, no light again, ever...OR...it's dark, but this is the last time it will ever be dark like this again...OR...last dark in one place/world, but there are/can/will be others.

Oh yeah, speculation abounds regarding various interpretations of The Last Dark..
But just tell me, in your own opinion, what exactly is precise about the title 'Fatal Revenant' when considering the events the book contains..

ninjaboy wrote:

Vraith wrote:

ninjaboy wrote: But I just thought I'd mention that SD is not always so precise when using words as you might think - and I'll give you an example - 'Fatal Revenant'.

Oh, I think he's pretty precise, especially in things like you cite...just not precise in the way one might think/expect.

Similarly, [and I independently thought this, but at least one person, maybe more...I don't read every post everywhere...thought of it faster] The Last Dark might mean the end of all, no light again, ever...OR...it's dark, but this is the last time it will ever be dark like this again...OR...last dark in one place/world, but there are/can/will be others.

Oh yeah, speculation abounds regarding various interpretations of The Last Dark..
But just tell me, in your own opinion, what exactly is precise about the title 'Fatal Revenant' when considering the events the book contains..

consider the definitions, and it becomes obvious to me:

revanant:
a person who returns after a lengthy absence
of or relating to or typical of a revenant; "revenant shrieks and groans"
someone who has returned from the dead
recurring: coming back; "a revenant ghost"

fatal:
bringing death
fateful: having momentous consequences; of decisive importance; "that fateful meeting of the U.N. when...it declared war on North Korea"- Saturday Rev; "the fatal day of the election finally arrived"
black: (of events) having extremely unfortunate or dire consequences; bringing ruin; "the stock market crashed on Black Friday"; "a calamitous defeat"; "the battle was a disastrous end to a disastrous campaign"; "such doctrines, if true, would be absolutely fatal to my theory"- Charles Darwin ...
controlled or decreed by fate; predetermined; "a fatal series of events"

It refers to the resurrection of TC...

ninjaboy wrote: But just tell me, in your own opinion, what exactly is precise about the title 'Fatal Revenant' when considering the events the book contains..

First, note that Fatal does not ONLY mean something that will kill...it means also due to fate or fated to happen, and also something with very bad consequences. [the fact that it might also have good ones does not negate the bad ones].
Also note that revenant doesn't mean only a person returned from death, but someone/thing returned, death not required. With that in mind, there are a number of things that qualify: Demondim/illearth stone, Roger disguised and Croyemiah, the Sandgorgons with their shred of a Raver [was that this book?], Linden in several different ways [most particularly the Linden that goes into the past/melenkurion compared to the Linden that comes out]. All those fit, to various extents. But the real one is TC. He fits every definition of both words.

ninjaboy wrote:But just tell me, in your own opinion, what exactly is precise about the title 'Fatal Revenant' when considering the events the book contains..

rdhopeca wrote: It refers to the resurrection of TC...

Vraith wrote: But the real one is TC. He fits every definition of both words.

I agree with ninjaboy, actually. The title is imprecise, BUT that's the whole point. It's quite deliberately imprecise. Vraith above has given a comprehensive list of candidates to which the title could apply and I'm certain that's SRD's entirely conscious intention. He's deliberately keeping his reader misled until the last minute.

When we all finished ROTE and read at the very end that the Last Chronicles would be continued in FR, we all no doubt thought "Ooo, Thomas Covenant's just appeared riding hell for leather, chased by Demondim into Revelstone! He's the fatal revenant for sure!" Covenant's apparently returned all of a sudden *and* from the dead... he's a revenant in all senses of the word as has been highlighted above. That's very odd, we think. How can he have returned without the Arch of Time being at risk? That all seems a bit fatal and fateful.

And that's the impression that continues throughout the first half of FR itself. In fact our view of "fatal" changes or gets added to - there's something wrong with the apparent Thomas Covenant. He's changed in some way and for the worse... he's lost his humanity... holy SH*T, he's a liar as well! What's going on? That's even more fatal in the sense of potentially deadly in consequence, if TC has been in some way corrupted.

But as it turns out, we don't find who the fatal revenant is until the end and our entire view on the book's title is wrenched in a completely different direction - it's the real TC himself who is the fatal revenant as others have said. Our relief at seeing the real deal return is heavily off-set by the apparent disaster of Linden deciding to resurrect him at all... "What have you done?". Cue even more enhanced dramatic tension as we all await AATE for 3 years.

So, yes, the fatal revenant is indeed TC as resurrected at the very end. But we don't discover that FR's title is indeed referring to him until the last moment. We're all quite deliberately smokescreened by SRD up until that point.

Or to put it another way, he precisely chooses an imprecise title that might apply to several characters.

Ummm....I think you're making an error here [just my opinion, could be wrong], and it is this:
That because something [let's say "Fatal Revenant," just to pick something at random] means one thing it doesn't/can't mean something else as well.

Specifically, as a title directed at one thing, TC is the answer/meaning.
BUT: as a thematic element, all those things I listed "count," participate in the meaning.
The misdirection only works because it is partly true.

Vraith wrote:Ummm....I think you're making an error here [just my opinion, could be wrong], and it is this:
That because something [let's say "Fatal Revenant," just to pick something at random] means one thing it doesn't/can't mean something else as well.

Specifically, as a title directed at one thing, TC is the answer/meaning.
BUT: as a thematic element, all those things I listed "count," participate in the meaning.
The misdirection only works because it is partly true.

We're actually largely agreeing, I think. "Fatal Revenant" as a term can as you rightly say be applied validly to several things within FR - I'm interested in how our perception of the term changes as the narrative progresses to culmination and the appearance of the most apt fatal revenant.

Of course, if SRD had called the thing "Fatal Revenance", we wouldn't be having this convo