Kevin's Watch

Here's the story:

news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/17/scientists-trying-to-clone-resurrect-extinct-mammoth/

From the article:

A team of scientists from Japan, Russia and the United States hopes to clone a mammoth, a symbol of Earth’s ice age that ended 12,000 years ago, according to a report in Japan’s Yomiuri Shimbun. The researchers say they hope to produce a baby mammoth within six years.

The scientists say they will extract DNA from a mammoth carcass that has been preserved in a Russian laboratory and insert it into the egg cells of an African elephant in hopes of producing a mammoth embryo.

I hope they succeed. I'd love to see a living Mammoth.

Heh....I put this in a different thread early this morning:

Vraith wrote: I wanna be there and pet it!

But I wonder...if enough Neandertal DNA is found, or can be recreated [last I heard they'd sequenced about 95% of their DNA], will they try and bring some of them back?
If you're a woman, how much would you charge to rent out your womb to make Neandertal babies?

That would be awesome.

This is an interesting short story about the possiblity of cloning Neandertals:

escapepod.org/2009/05/07/episode-198-n-words/

SerScot wrote:This is an interesting short story about the possiblity of cloning Neandertals:

escapepod.org/2009/05/07/episode-198-n-words/

I'm listening to it now...heh, at about 10 minutes...it's got mammoths brought back to...funny.
But the reader....man she just SUCKS!

This has been talked about before. It's going to happen, maybe sooner rather than later.

I'd like to see the living mammoth, but the thylacine deserves to live again the most. Thylacines are also known as the Tasmanian Wolf and the story of their extinction is well documented.

There are groups out there already plotting the return of the Dodo, as well.

These things are possible in the very near future (5-10 years or less).

Horrim Carabal wrote:This has been talked about before. It's going to happen, maybe sooner rather than later.

I'd like to see the living mammoth, but the thylacine deserves to live again the most. Thylacines are also known as the Tasmanian Wolf and the story of their extinction is well documented.

There are groups out there already plotting the return of the Dodo, as well.

These things are possible in the very near future (5-10 years or less).

Heh...there's a series of books by JJJassper FFFFordddeee [ok, there aren't really THAT many repeated letters....] They're humor, not serious, but have resurrected dodos, mammoths, neandertals, thylacines...and a few other things, too, IIRC. Not to mention Time travel, book travel, and other whacky things [such as people reading/buying MORE books every year].

Yeah, I guess it was inevitable. And in a sense, it may present some hope for the future of biodiversity. All we need to do is store the DNA of animals on the verge of extinction, and we can have them back whenever we want.

The idea of cloning Neandertal though, I'm not so sure about...would we be trying to create a minority, or an exhibit?

--A

Avatar,

I'm not sure if just the DNA will be enough. We've got elephants to gestate the mammoth embryos. Other animals we attempt to resurrect will not have such similar animals to take advantage of.

Vraith,

I read the story but discovered the audio version a few weeks after reading it. I thought it was rather though provoking. Neanderthals failed because we were the cheaper version of hominid. But after resurrection they will replace us because we've, largely, dealt with the scarcity issues that killed them off in the first place.

SerScot wrote: I read the story but discovered the audio version a few weeks after reading it. I thought it was rather though provoking. Neanderthals failed because we were the cheaper version of hominid. But after resurrection they will replace us because we've, largely, dealt with the scarcity issues that killed them off in the first place.

I did manage to get through it despite terrible reader...and it is an interesting idea, with some side/subordinate issues, too.
The dying off just because of energy-efficiency issue...kinda cool/scary.
In a way, reminds me of an old story [70's? 80's?]...aliens come to earth, long after humans have died out. They start resurrecting humans, starting with the "oldest," one person from each stage of us. They study that person, kill them, bring the next, IIRC.
The very last/most advanced one they bring back looks around...and escapes. Turns out we were way more advanced/smarter than them, but by a quirk of fate never discovered FTL travel, so couldn't spread out. Now, we've got it, and these aliens have turned us loose on the universe.
The end.

SerScot wrote: Neanderthals failed because we were the cheaper version of hominid. But after resurrection they will replace us because we've, largely, dealt with the scarcity issues that killed them off in the first place.

Untrue. Our larger brains made us superior despite the Neandethals' greater strength, stamina, and general toughness.

Horrim Carabal wrote:

SerScot wrote: Neanderthals failed because we were the cheaper version of hominid. But after resurrection they will replace us because we've, largely, dealt with the scarcity issues that killed them off in the first place.

Untrue. Our larger brains made us superior despite the Neandethals' greater strength, stamina, and general toughness.

Except that that isn't true to any significant degree...and that was the story premise.
For brains, size doesn't matter, except at the edges [just like the size of a man's.....feet....is irrelevant except in relation to what shoes he can get into]...Einstein wasn't smarter cuz his brain was bigger than average [IIRC, it was actually below average purely in size].
The author did ignore, or didn't know, OTHER parts of brain developement theory/speculations, but was correct on this one.

this will all end bedly with us unleashing soem monster virus or flesh eating mammoths that take over the world.

mark my words.

Correct me if I'm wrong but cro-magnon brains (our ancestors) were both larger and more complex. Neanderthals had smaller frontal cortexes and much smaller language areas.

They probably wouldn't have been able to develop a complex language and therefore no real "society" like cro-magnon.

Horrim Carabal wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but cro-magnon brains (our ancestors) were both larger and more complex. Neanderthals had smaller frontal cortexes and much smaller language areas.

They probably wouldn't have been able to develop a complex language and therefore no real "society" like cro-magnon.

well...cro-magnon actually had larger brains than modern people. It's pretty sure neandertals had language, and it appears right now [comparing actual dna, which is certain, and population estimates, which are a little shakier] that neandertals weren't entirely replaced cuz cro-magnon killed/outcompeted them...though given our tribal/difference/violence tendency that is surely part of the story...they were replaced by interbreeding...all the racial groups except those strictly isolated in Africa have Neandertal DNA...even those that live where Neandertal never did.
Fact is, we know lots [well...relatively speaking, lots] about brain size, and how shape/function works in OUR branch of the tree, and a speculative outline for some currently existing species outside our branch...but wrinkles/layers/vertical and horizontal connections affect how/where/what info processes more, when brains/body size ratios are roughly equal.

Avatar wrote:Yeah, I guess it was inevitable. And in a sense, it may present some hope for the future of biodiversity. All we need to do is store the DNA of animals on the verge of extinction, and we can have them back whenever we want.

No doubt so we can simply kill them off again.

Isn't there some movie about cloning prehistoric creatures that goes horribly horribly wrong?

rdhopeca wrote: Isn't there some movie about cloning prehistoric creatures that goes horribly horribly wrong?

Yea...but cloning can never go as horribly wrong as the sequels to that movie did.

Yeah, I've seen the recent theories about the Neandertal inter-breeding.

SerScot wrote:I'm not sure if just the DNA will be enough. We've got elephants to gestate the mammoth embryos. Other animals we attempt to resurrect will not have such similar animals to take advantage of.

Why not? I'm pretty sure lions will be able to gestate a tiger embryo, and a brown bear a panda embryo.

--A

Avatar,

Avatar wrote:Yeah, I've seen the recent theories about the Neandertal inter-breeding.

SerScot wrote:I'm not sure if just the DNA will be enough. We've got elephants to gestate the mammoth embryos. Other animals we attempt to resurrect will not have such similar animals to take advantage of.

Why not? I'm pretty sure lions will be able to gestate a tiger embryo, and a brown bear a panda embryo.

--A

I was thinking more along the lines of what could gestate the embryo of a T-Rex or a Sesimosaurus.