Kevin's Watch

No - better.

I meant what I said about it being the best story Ive ever read, and now Im almost sorry having read it. A bar has been set now, and doors have been closed. I fear I will never journey to Mordor with Frodo, and his fellowship again. Almost sorry.

I'm right there with you. I'm slowly rereading it all again. (Half through HoC atm.) I tried to start a couple other things, including Bakker, but can't get it out of my soul yet. Only Luci speaks of it in ways that indicate it has had the same impact on her as it did on me. Maybe you're another.


And everyone feel free to ignore Orlion. *shakes head*

The best thing to do is to tell yourself it's a different type of story (and it is, on both counts). That's how I deal

Naaa. I'll just re-read the entire series. Then I'll do it again. Perhaps I will get to a point where I'm sick of it, then Erikson will write another book, and the whole vicious cycle will begin again.

Heh. I think Orlion was talking to me about AATE, because I hate the Final Chrons through the first two books, and am not reading AATE or TFD.

Anyway, Erikson and Esselmont are, indeed, writing more. Esselmont's Darujhistan book is supposed to be coming out in December, and I think another book or two. Erikson has two trilogies planned: a Tiste Andii prequel; and a Thelomen Toblakai story set after TMBotF, which I guess is gonna star Karsa.

I'm not sure where your hate comes from, so maybe you'll dislike anything with Linden as the main PoV, but Against All Things Ending was the best book so far. I compare it favourably to White Gold Wielder.

You just have to remember what the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant is about before you judge based on the attitudes of the main characters: despair.

Onos T'oolan wrote:Heh. I think Orlion was talking to me about AATE, because I hate the Final Chrons through the first two books, and am not reading AATE or TFD.

Surprisingly, no. That's just how I read something different and still enjoy them, I just don't compare things to whatever awesome book I've read before. (Could you imagine trying to read, say, The Secret History of Moscow and comparing it to Titus Groan? I'd never enjoy anything!)

Which is kinda what Murrin was saying: you can only enjoy a book (or movie) for what it is, not for what you want it to be.

Murrin wrote:...Against All Things Ending was the best book so far...

Agreed.

--A

Avatar wrote:I still don't think that being in pain exculpates him for his actions though.

IMO, you're not understanding the state TCG was in. He wasn't "in pain."

Would we hold someone responsible for murders he committed after having been kidnapped, drugged, brainwashed, and tortured for a few years? Obviously there's something of the person's original mind remaining. But it can't be that we'd assume the pre-kidnapped person was the type to murder random children. We'd feel sorry for the person who was lost to the horrors inflicted on him.

And if there was magic that could bring him back to his original state? We certainly can't do that with therapy and anti-psychotics. But real magic? Would we hold the restored person responsible for the murders?

I believe TCG endured far, far, far more than that scenario. I don't believe it's even a close call. What he endured is to that scenario as the atom bomb is to the bow and arrow.

Then, he was restored.

Mr. Broken wrote: A bar has been set now, and doors have been closed. I fear I will never journey to Mordor with Frodo, and his fellowship again. Almost sorry.

i must've missed this comment when you posted mr. b, but yeah, i discovered The Hobbit and LotR when i was 16 (thanks, again, to my daddy) and pretty much read them once a year ever since...until i discovered (thanks to the folks at the r scott bakker forum) Erikson. (which at the time meant i'd read them both at least 30 times) i realized, when i read your post just now, that i haven't read tolkien since discovering erikson!!!

i may have to read the hobbit before the film comes out tho. it looks like its gonna be really fun!

lucimay wrote:

Mr. Broken wrote: A bar has been set now, and doors have been closed. I fear I will never journey to Mordor with Frodo, and his fellowship again. Almost sorry.

i must've missed this comment when you posted mr. b, but yeah, i discovered The Hobbit and LotR when i was 16 (thanks, again, to my daddy) and pretty much read them once a year ever since...until i discovered (thanks to the folks at the r scott bakker forum) Erikson. (which at the time meant i'd read them both at least 30 times) i realized, when i read your post just now, that i haven't read tolkien since discovering erikson!!!

i may have to read the hobbit before the film comes out tho. it looks like its gonna be really fun!

I have felt the burning rain of wounded Moon Spawn
Tasted dust and tears on the Chain of Dogs
Stood the wall at Capustan
I have witnessed
Eaten something that died in a canal in Lether
Felt the flames of Y'ghatan
Worn armor made of golden coin
Stolen fortune's to repay debts in the city of blue light
and a bunch of other stuff. Singing Elves are never gonna do it for me again.

Mr. Broken wrote:

lucimay wrote:

Mr. Broken wrote: A bar has been set now, and doors have been closed. I fear I will never journey to Mordor with Frodo, and his fellowship again. Almost sorry.

i must've missed this comment when you posted mr. b, but yeah, i discovered The Hobbit and LotR when i was 16 (thanks, again, to my daddy) and pretty much read them once a year ever since...until i discovered (thanks to the folks at the r scott bakker forum) Erikson. (which at the time meant i'd read them both at least 30 times) i realized, when i read your post just now, that i haven't read tolkien since discovering erikson!!!

i may have to read the hobbit before the film comes out tho. it looks like its gonna be really fun!

I have felt the burning rain of wounded Moon Spawn
Tasted dust and tears on the Chain of Dogs
Stood the wall at Capustan
I have witnessed
Eaten something that died in a canal in Lether
Felt the flames of Y'ghatan
Worn armor made of golden coin
Stolen fortune's to repay debts in the city of blue light
and a bunch of other stuff. Singing Elves are never gonna do it for me again.

yer a gem, mr. b!!

One could say that reading Erikson has burned my bridges... to Middle Earth.

Onos T'oolan wrote:

Avatar wrote:I still don't think that being in pain exculpates him for his actions though.

IMO, you're not understanding the state TCG was in. He wasn't "in pain."

Would we hold someone responsible for murders he committed after having been kidnapped, drugged, brainwashed, and tortured for a few years? Obviously there's something of the person's original mind remaining. But it can't be that we'd assume the pre-kidnapped person was the type to murder random children. We'd feel sorry for the person who was lost to the horrors inflicted on him.

And if there was magic that could bring him back to his original state? We certainly can't do that with therapy and anti-psychotics. But real magic? Would we hold the restored person responsible for the murders?

I believe TCG endured far, far, far more than that scenario. I don't believe it's even a close call. What he endured is to that scenario as the atom bomb is to the bow and arrow.

Then, he was restored.

I'm gonna revisit this as soon as I finish TCG again. (Just started StoneWielder.) Right now, I'm not buying it. As I remember it, he changed his own mind, and that means he chose to do the other stuff too.

Not saying there weren't extenuating circumstances, but that doesn't make it all ok.

--A

but of course it's not like rhulad didn't sorta make his own bed, right? i mean he wasn't that nice of a guy to begin with. he oughta have been a bit more careful what he wished for, eh?

Hahaha, I'll grant you that.

--A

Rhulad was twisted long before TCG ever got his paws on him. Unlike all of Kaminsod's other minions with their various afflictions, and ailments, Rhulads flaws were failings of character. His fate although it may have seemed harsh, was appropriate considering the horrors he eagerly , and willingly visited on his own blood. TCG simply amplified what was already wrong with Rhulad.

Ok, I'm on TCG now.

--A

Y'know, it really is essential to reread these...I never picked up on the whole Dassem/T'lan Imass curse/vow thing with Hood before.

--A