Kevin's Watch

Ok so I've been encouraged to start a thread on this as I've never read this series. I know! I know! Where have I been hiding?

First a little background on me I guess....
I was, and still am I guess, a big fan of LOTR in the late seventies and I was hungry for more! I read the first Shannara book and it just seemed like a cheap imitation. I read several others, or should I say started to, but found most to follow the same type of patterns. Then one day in oh 1980 or '81 I saw a really cool bookcover (I know shallow) But it was The Illearth War and I was intrigued and immediately looked and found the first TCTC and was hooked!!!! I mean seriously! The characters and the writing was like nothing I had experienced. I read and re-read those books 'til they were worn out. Loved them and still do today. . . . . . Anyway I moved on into sci-fi and never even considered SRD's other works, until now. After reading AATE and now hungrier than ever I found this forum and learned of Mordant's Need.
Wow!! I just realized how much of a windbag I am More to come. . .

Yeah so anyway as I was saying. . . . . . . Just kidding

I'm really enjoying this book so far and I'll report more on my experience tomorrow cuz I really need to hit the sack

'nite

Mordent's Need is fantastic.
I'm always surprised how little discussion there is about it.
Although....I don't really have much to say.

Maybe because it's so solidly/well written?
There are no loose ends or nagging questions?

Hopefully you'll post often and get us all talking about it again.

Well, welcome aboard fernhold!
BTW, I like your variation of the Wounded Land cover for your avatar.

fernhold wrote:Anyway I moved on into sci-fi and never even considered SRD's other works

Then when you have finished Mordant's Need (both of them), you need to start on The Gap Cycle, which is both science fiction and SRD.

Truly... I especially like it because I really identify with Terisa.

How far into it are you, Fernhold?

So that we can interject ideas and they won't be spoilers... =)

I just lost ten minutes of typing cuz my comp cacked.

I'll start over again. . . . . .

My avatar shows I’ve got taste eh? The Gap is next on my list for sure!!
I just completed chapter 16 ‘Who your friends are’
At first I really really didn’t like Terisa. I think because I was comparing her to TC. There are some similarities and I kept referring to those in my mind. First; they’re both translated out of their own reality into a completely fantastic alter-reality. TC tries to hang on to his ‘reality’ stubbornly hanging on to the notion that this is all some dream. Terisa just dives right in not even blinking when thrust into this whole new world. TC tries to deny responsibility, refuses to act and is just basically a prick to everyone (at least at the beginning). Terisa picks sides right away; Eremis? Just because he fondled her on his couch she sides with him? Really? And for someone so timid about their own existence, she just accepts everything at face value. WTF???
Different story, different characters; kudos to SRD!!
I’m glad to see the king is not senile!! I was wondering what was up with him; he’s play acting to draw out his enemies. I really like the old codger! Terisa has finally started to glimpse that things are not what they seem. And she appears to be growing a spine. Hopefully she gets that ‘fornicator’ Eremis out of her head. I’m really enjoying how the story is developing. I’ve been led along (I guess) thinking things were going to happen and then a wrench gets thrown in the works!! The game of hop-board at the prince’s audience and the attack in the tunnel!! Again kudos to SRD!! What an imagination!!
So now I’m really anticipating what’s coming next!!
What’s Eremis going to do now that he’s been arrested?
What about Lebbick and his obvious hatred of Terisa?
Who is Geraden really? What answers will he figure out for himself? What will he do next?
What about the champion? The lords? The man in black? Myste? Prince Kragen? Saddith?

Can you tell I’m hooked??

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:

fernhold wrote:Anyway I moved on into sci-fi and never even considered SRD's other works

Then when you have finished Mordant's Need (both of them), you need to start on The Gap Cycle, which is both science fiction and SRD.

Hell yes...The GAP is his best work in my opinion.

FernHold wrote:And for someone so timid about their own existence, she just accepts everything at face value. WTF???

Yeah, she bothers me as well.

--A

I just finished chapters 17 and 18 and once again I’m disgusted with Terisa!

OK, first chapter 17- wherein Terisa visits Eremis in the dungeon and agrees to betray Geraden:

This chick is worse than a teenage boy with a bad case of overactive hormones. Though I have to say that I can identify (somewhat) with her rationalizing false reasons for what she does then quickly caving in to her rather well denied desires. But Jeez!! She’s putting a lot at risk just to get her rocks off.
There’s obviously a lot at stake and she knows it yet she keeps seeking out the womanizing–scheming-I-got-a-bad-feeling-about-Eremis. It’s a sad commentary on the human condition (and probably true then) that so much gets put in peril because someone is overly horney or lusty or. . . whatever. I guess kingdoms and other great works have all crumbled, wars have been started, won and lost simply because one person is enamoured or greatly desires another. Helen of Troy comes to mind. So with her breasts hanging in the breeze and Eremis slobbering all over them this woman decides, or at least agrees to betray the other guy she’s captivated with. Why is that woman most readily fall for the ‘bad boy’? Everything else she says or does is her trying to justify to herself or deceive someone else that she’s trying to help.

That’s my take on it anyway. SRD has done a good job at presenting Terisa as human; with all the faults and frailties that go with it. And evoking a reaction out of me!! Good job!!!

Chapter 18- Geraden, Artagel and Terisa return to the scene of the battle with the ‘man in black’:

I’m noticing that Terisa is torn; I get that but I’m not quite ready to let her off the hook yet. And I’m right too!! As soon as she hears that Erimis is out of prison all she thinks about is getting laid!
Again it’s Geraden who comes up with insight and a plan on what to do next. It’s obvious he cares about Terisa for more than just getting into her pants; though I’m sure he wants that too. But he feels responsible for her being there and genuinely wants to help her get back home. Of course all she thinks about is Eremis’ tongue; sickening!! But she does get caught up in the plan and they descend to the corridor.

I was held spellbound by the scene with the cockroach spewing zombies!!!!
There is more going on than meets the eye with the Apt too. Should’ve known; if the king has his wits about him so would he, at least occaisionally.

But I gotta tell ya, that Terisa is really getting under my skin!!!

Ah, the man in black. Do you know who he was yet? I love his scenes.

--A

fernhold wrote:OK, first chapter 17- wherein Terisa visits Eremis in the dungeon and agrees to betray Geraden:

This chick is worse than a teenage boy with a bad case of overactive hormones.
...
There’s obviously a lot at stake and she knows it yet she keeps seeking out the womanizing–scheming-I-got-a-bad-feeling-about-Eremis. It’s a sad commentary on the human condition (and probably true then) that so much gets put in peril because someone is overly horney or lusty or. . . whatever.

The thing is... I would say it's not primarily hormones; it's being noticed as feminine & beautiful & valuable.

She had a thrill when someone addressed her by her first name.

Remember some line about how Eremis drew her to himself or something "contained certain male implications"? It's both about his masculinity and about him being alpha-male/dominating. And now, who is that like?

This is a weak-willed woman who has no idea she's worth fighting for.

Linna Heartlistener wrote:

fernhold wrote:OK, first chapter 17- wherein Terisa visits Eremis in the dungeon and agrees to betray Geraden:

This chick is worse than a teenage boy with a bad case of overactive hormones.
...
There’s obviously a lot at stake and she knows it yet she keeps seeking out the womanizing–scheming-I-got-a-bad-feeling-about-Eremis. It’s a sad commentary on the human condition (and probably true then) that so much gets put in peril because someone is overly horney or lusty or. . . whatever.

The thing is... I would say it's not primarily hormones; it's being noticed as feminine & beautiful & valuable.

She had a thrill when someone addressed her by her first name.

Remember some line about how Eremis drew her to himself or something "contained certain male implications"? It's both about his masculinity and about him being alpha-male/dominating. And now, who is that like?

This is a weak-willed woman who has no idea she's worth fighting for.

Kinda have to disagree with some of that. Eremis is only noticing that she is feminine in as far as he can copulate with her. He only sees her physical beauty; which explains his constant need to open her shirt. And his value to her is certainly nothing to do with her as a person; she's simply a tool for him to achieve his goals (whatever they are).

I agree wholeheartedly that she is weak-willed and has no idea of her worth. I hope she discovers it soon!!!


I haven't been able to read any more for the last few days; too much going on right now!!

I will be back to it very soon though. . . . . .

fernhold wrote:

Linna Heartlistener wrote: The thing is... I would say it's not primarily hormones; it's being noticed as feminine & beautiful & valuable.

Kinda have to disagree with some of that. Eremis is only noticing that she is feminine in as far as he can copulate with her. He only sees her physical beauty; which explains his constant need to open her shirt. And his value to her is certainly nothing to do with her as a person; she's simply a tool for him to achieve his goals (whatever they are).

Yes; this is all very obvious to us readers as third-party observers.

But why exactly would we expect it to be obvious to Terisa? Her social experience prior to coming to Orison? ...practically nonexistent. (other than being used or being bullied in to submission)

He only sees her physical beauty; which explains his constant need to open her shirt.

Yeah, but why does she just stand around and let random strangers start opening her shirt?

--A

Avatar wrote:Yeah, but why does she just stand around and let random strangers start opening her shirt?

--A

Good point.

But then, why do people stand around letting random telemarketers take away their valuable time?

Why are people like that, anyway?

Hahaha, not nearly on the same level I think.

--A

Bah, knew I'd get that response... lemme think of something better & try again...

[edited: well, meh... that example doesn't work, either. That one is (mostly) after the taking has happened.]

Why do people tell young women, "It's your body, and you don't have to do anything you don't want to"?

Why bother telling a person something that should be so... obvious?

I am finding Mordant's Need not nearly as easy to read as The Chronicles. While I was occasionally annoyed by Covenant's behavior, I'm finding I want to take Terisa out to the woodshed and beat some sense into her!!!!

I nearly "threw up a little in my mouth" over her weak-kneed response to the attention paid to her by Gerant, who she already KNEW was a Lothario. I wanted to slap her (like Cher, "SNAP OUT OF IT!!!") I had to put the book down for a few days. Maybe I'll get back to it this evening....

Perhaps, my difficulty with this character is because I've never been one of those "invisible" women, quiet and powerless.... I just don't understand those kind of women. Perhaps, if I can force myself to finish this book (and the other one), I will come to have some small understanding of how these women can continue to exist.

I think I found parts of Mordant's Need difficult for the opposite reason- I identified too strongly with what Terisa goes through. I spent a great deal of my life allowing people to either bully or disregard me, and I found it really hard to break out of those patterns. The hardest parts for me were her confrontations with Lebbick. Awful.

But I also know what you mean about her being frustrating sometimes, especially her romps with Eremis. Then I wanted to slap her.

Without spoiling, rest assured that you will have a great deal more respect for Terisa when you finish the books.

Interesting... I identified very strongly with Terisa as well. But for some reason, I found the entire experience of reading MN entirely exhilarating because of this.

Maybe it's because I know where that comes from, when it's part of a person's personality.

Maybe it's because I'd already been confronted on how my passivity was harmful to others... confronted on that issue... a LOT, actually.

Or maybe it's because of the "place" that I, personally, was at just then.

Spoiler

Or maybe because, somehow, Terisa always manages to scrape by without utterly destroying others.
I sorta viewed this as though SRD, in his "authorial sovereignty," was planning Terisa's circumstances to be extra "nice" to her, in terms of giving her time to "catch up."
I thought he was exceptionally "kind" to Terisa, compared to other characters of his.

If anyone wants to contest anything I said in the spoiler, start another thread, yo. ...For the sake of Fernhold.