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Two Cosmologies for AATE readers

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:26 pm
by ussusimiel
[For background on this thread, see Wayfriend's excellent thread here.]

Once more you can blame wayfriend for this post. It seems most of my long posts originate in wayfriend's scholarship.

What if the Worm of the World’s End is Real?

In this take on the Worm of the World’s End I use elements from the different creation myths to attempt to weave a coherent narrative. I only use what I know from the 1st and 2nd Chronicles and realise that there may be extra information that has arisen in RotE and FR (I am only halfway through FR at the moment) that contradicts or renders these speculations beside the point.

My starting premise is that the Worm is real.

Here is how I would tell the story: the Creator makes a rainbow to please his children. (The rainbow is the Arch of Time.) He is angry when he finds that his shadow brother has marred his creation. While he tries to fix it his children find the rainbow and pass through the wound into a dark universe. There they fill the universe with the light and brightness of the stars.

The Creator out of anger casts his shadow brother beneath the Arch of Time thus imprisoning him in the same universe as his children. He fixes the Arch thus sealing in both his shadow brother and his children (I take a liberty here because in the story that Foamfollower tells TC the Creator tears down the rainbow). Now he cannot reach through the Arch or free his children because in doing so he will also free his brother.

The shadow brother is the Worm of the World’s End. In the universe beneath the Arch of Time he begins to devour the bright children. The children are powerful so there is a price for this. The Worm becomes sleepy and curls up into a ball. As it rests the power of the Creator’s children continues to work and the Earth of the Land is formed and all its myriad inhabitants.

Two types of beings are different though: the Elohim and Lord Foul. These are the direct offspring of the union of the stars and the Worm. They are the conscious elements of Creation and Destruction. Prior to the Worm devouring the children both of the elements of Creation and Destruction were unconscious. The Worm was unconscious Destruction and the children/stars were unconscious Creation. (It may be that the Creator contained both creation and destruction and so was conscious, if unaware or forgetful of his shadow aspect.)

Neither LF nor the Elohim can survive if the Worm wakes up, both will revert to unconsciousness. This is where White Gold/Wild Magic comes in. White Gold is an alloy unknown in the universe of the Land. It represents the mixture of creation and destruction necessary to make something new. It is the Creator’s power in the universe. At the end of the 2nd Chronicles Thomas Covenant realises that he is White Gold, that he contains the power of to create something new and so he becomes the keystone to the Arch. He is an alloy of creation and destruction.

For either the Elohim or Lord Foul to survive they must hold White Gold in their possession when the Worm wakes up. If they do they will survive and be able to break the Arch of Time. Interestingly, we can speculate that the Creator might equally fear whoever survives because there is no difference between all-powerful arrogance and all-powerful despite, both are evil. White Gold in the hands of Lord Foul or the Elohim is unearned power. It will lead to untamed creation or untamed destruction which both lead to chaos.

This version only works if Findail is lying when he says, in the cavern of the One Tree, that waking the Worm will break the Arch and free LF. He has reason to lie if the waking of the Worm means the end of the Elohim (and LF). In this telling of the story of the Worm, the Arch would not be threatened by the Worm waking up because the Worm and the Arch are two separate things.

Let me know what you think.

u.

[EDIT: to fix link]

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:02 pm
by Creator
I don't know if this is a "spoiler" ...but I am marking it as such since I have read all three books.
Spoiler
The text establishes that the Worm is a real manifestation, awake, and headed to drink Earthblood. I think it clearly establishes the Worm as very distinct from Lord Foul (not to mention SWMNBN.)

The text posits that bad things will happen when the worm drinks the Earthblood.

This physical manifestation, I think exacerbates the two-cosmology issues. It will be interesting to read how SRD handles it!!

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:59 pm
by Zarathustra
shadowbinding shoe wrote:I disagree with many of the opinions posted about Lord Foul here.

Why does everybody claim that Lord Foul is a force of Chaos? Sure he wants to pervert/destroy the current order in the world but that doesn't make him inherently a champion of chaos. The Sunbane was not 'chaos'. It was a new kind of order. A whole new creation. We may not have liked to live in it but it was one impressive piece of creation. When we meet him at TPTP we see that he creates all kinds of new beings to inhabit his demesnes (and his armies) and that he built a very symmetrical and orderly building to live in. What he hates we learn is not order. Quite the opposite in fact. He hates life, for its transmutability. What he wants to create is a perfectly ordered world where there is no place for life. He may not be capable of accomplishing his desire, but that is his desire nonetheless.

And he's certainly not necessary in the Creation to make it capable of its own destruction. Hasn't he already placed enough banes and evil beings in it to enable it to become dust and be undone completely. What he has done so far is just push these banes and beings into action. Goad the positive forces to give up. He wasn't necessary for those things to happen. They could have accomplished those things on their own. He was just something extra.
I didn't realize what a good post this was until recently (rereading this thread b/c of recent discussions in the AATE forum).

I think you're right. Foul doesn't equal entropy or mortality or all things ending. He represents one possible response to that (i.e. Despite). The Worm represents chaos/entropy/mortality/all things ending. I'll have to rethink all this ...

Ussusimiel, to address your theory would be spoilerific in this forum ... you should join the discussion in AATE.

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:47 pm
by ussusimiel
Zarathustra wrote:Ussusimiel, to address your theory would be spoilerific in this forum ... you should join the discussion in AATE.
Thanks, Z. I've just got my hands on a copy of AATE, so as soon as I've read it I'll join in.

u.

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:40 am
by shadowbinding shoe
Zarathustra wrote:
shadowbinding shoe wrote:I disagree with many of the opinions posted about Lord Foul here.

Why does everybody claim that Lord Foul is a force of Chaos? Sure he wants to pervert/destroy the current order in the world but that doesn't make him inherently a champion of chaos. The Sunbane was not 'chaos'. It was a new kind of order. A whole new creation. We may not have liked to live in it but it was one impressive piece of creation. When we meet him at TPTP we see that he creates all kinds of new beings to inhabit his demesnes (and his armies) and that he built a very symmetrical and orderly building to live in. What he hates we learn is not order. Quite the opposite in fact. He hates life, for its transmutability. What he wants to create is a perfectly ordered world where there is no place for life. He may not be capable of accomplishing his desire, but that is his desire nonetheless.

And he's certainly not necessary in the Creation to make it capable of its own destruction. Hasn't he already placed enough banes and evil beings in it to enable it to become dust and be undone completely. What he has done so far is just push these banes and beings into action. Goad the positive forces to give up. He wasn't necessary for those things to happen. They could have accomplished those things on their own. He was just something extra.
I didn't realize what a good post this was until recently (rereading this thread b/c of recent discussions in the AATE forum).

I think you're right. Foul doesn't equal entropy or mortality or all things ending. He represents one possible response to that (i.e. Despite). The Worm represents chaos/entropy/mortality/all things ending. I'll have to rethink all this ...

Ussusimiel, to address your theory would be spoilerific in this forum ... you should join the discussion in AATE.
Thanks.

Now that we have AATE...
Spoiler
Lord Foul creative powers seem diminished. His cold beautiful home is actually the creation of the Viles. In fact he almost seems a Tolkienesque villain, only able to distort the beautiful creations of others.

I still feel that my impressions from the 1st chronicle hold some water. There his undoing and therefore his antithesis is joy and laughter, the linchpins of Life

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:41 am
by wayfriend
This subthread was split out and moved to the AATE forum, so that we can freely talk about spoilers. Thanks, Mr. Moderator.