Kevin's Watch

I must say, after the preface where he mentioned that the story does move forward from Feast, I expected more plot advancement. When is Daenerys finally going to move past Meereen?

Sometime in the next two books, I imagine. I've gotta say that I was hoping for a more exciting result from Dany's disappearance on dragonback than to just have her dumped in the field next to the dragon's den. Like, I dunno, she would fly all the way back to Westeros on it or something.

The Tyrion chapters didn't bother me because I find his observations entertaining. But yeah, I was sorta hoping he'd meet up with Dany and that *some*thing significant would happen in this book....

I don't even know who Manderly *is*. No, don't tell me -- I'll just have to reread it at some point too. <sigh>

Lord Too-Fat-To-Sit-A-Horse, as Stannis dubbed him.

Quaithe's warnings were and interesting touch. Some had double meanings - the perfumed seneschal, for example. Daenerys had a perfumed seneschal in her court... but it was also the name of the ship Tyrion came in on, though he preferred to translate it Stinky Steward.

Murrin wrote:Lord Too-Fat-To-Sit-A-Horse, as Stannis dubbed him.

Oh yeah, *that* guy.

Yeah, I think the warnings that Dany has received have almost been more harm to her than help.

I keep forgetting I wanted to comment on this:

- As far as Cersei's "Ser Robert" is concerned I am guessing that it is the reanimated body of Greggor Clegane, maybe even without a head due to being always in his armor and Dorne recieving his skull earlier in the book. I have to say my interest in this and whatever else Qyburn has been doing in his dungeons has been peaked.

The head sent to Dorne was not Gregor's at all - in AFfC Cersei gave a dwarf's oversized head to her people and told them to strip the flesh from it and send it to Dorne.

Regarding Ramsay's letter, I think we can safely say it's mostly false. What the letter tells us for certain is that Ramsay has captured Mance, and that he knows Mance was planning to take Jeyne to the Wall. He assumes, then, that Theon and Jeyne have gone to Castle Black.

If Ramsay had defeated Stannis, I think he would know better than to think they'd gone to Jon. Given what we know of the escape, none of the shieldmaidens made it out, so that about the skins is probably true as well. Ramsay would have been livid about the whole thing and probably more interested in a) torturing his prisoners, and b) hunting down Jeyne and Theon than in continuing with the march out to attack Stannis.

If anything, I expect Roose Bolton led the army out and Ramsay stayed behind at Winterfell and does not know the actual result of the battle yet.

Murrin wrote:I keep forgetting I wanted to comment on this:

- As far as Cersei's "Ser Robert" is concerned I am guessing that it is the reanimated body of Greggor Clegane, maybe even without a head due to being always in his armor and Dorne recieving his skull earlier in the book. I have to say my interest in this and whatever else Qyburn has been doing in his dungeons has been peaked.

The head sent to Dorne was not Gregor's at all - in AFfC Cersei gave a dwarf's oversized head to her people and told them to strip the flesh from it and send it to Dorne.

oh yeah, i knew that, i just didn't comment on that specifically when i copied sleeper's post. i'm pretty sure clegane didn't die at all and that the ser robert guy is him. cause i'm pretty sure there's gonna be another confrontation between brothers cause eventually i think the hound is gonna prove himself to be some sort of "good guy".

Murrin wrote:Regarding Ramsay's letter, I think we can safely say it's mostly false. What the letter tells us for certain is that Ramsay has captured Mance, and that he knows Mance was planning to take Jeyne to the Wall. He assumes, then, that Theon and Jeyne have gone to Castle Black.

If Ramsay had defeated Stannis, I think he would know better than to think they'd gone to Jon. Given what we know of the escape, none of the shieldmaidens made it out, so that about the skins is probably true as well. Ramsay would have been livid about the whole thing and probably more interested in a) torturing his prisoners, and b) hunting down Jeyne and Theon than in continuing with the march out to attack Stannis.

If anything, I expect Roose Bolton led the army out and Ramsay stayed behind at Winterfell and does not know the actual result of the battle yet.

absolutely. /nod nod

I think Gregor is dead, and Robert is a walking corpse. You're right, though - he's Sandor's monster to slay, just as Sansa is Sandor's maiden to rescue.


I didn't expect Quentyn Martell to die. Though I couldn't see where his story was going, either. He had no purpose in Daenerys' court. But now that he has... I can see Archibald earning a spot in the Queensguard.

Arya's assassination was interesting. Clever, but took a lot of luck: She knew he was nervous and fearing attacks, so she caused a coin of the Faceless Men to be given to him, and he had a heart attack. I'm surprised it worked.

Murrin wrote:I think Gregor is dead, and Robert is a walking corpse. You're right, though - he's Sandor's monster to slay, just as Sansa is Sandor's maiden to rescue.

abso-friggin-lutely!!

So, Myrcella and the Lady Nym are travelling to King's Landing - via the Dornish Marches and the Stormlands. Think they might run into the Golden Company?

A note on Jon Snow's situation.

We already know that in Castle Black the wildling forces outnumber the Watch significantly. Leathers and Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun are right there at the scene. The wildlings have shown overwhelming support for Jon so far, and they won't like the Watch members who want rid of them. Melisandre also has an interest in keeping Jon safe.

So I can see the wildlings preventing the Watch men from going any further, and Jon being taken to Melisandre for healing. Whether the Night's Watch can survive this, and whether Jon can remain Lord Commander, is another question entirely. I suspect some external event will intervene to allow him to restore control and show the worth of his decisions... but I'm not good at predicting where Martin will go, and it could be Jon's watch is ended.

Yeah, Martin does have a history of knocking off his most sympathetic characters....

I hope you're right that Jon survives the attack. Some folks have speculated that his spirit would move in with his direwolf, but Martin pointedly says that the wolf is locked away, too far to reach. Altho I'm not sure whether he means "too far to transfer to" or "too far to attack those who are trying to kill me".

Oh, there's absolutely no chance Jon is dead. What I meant was it might turn out to be the end of his involvement in the Night's Watch.

The other skinchanger, Bolton's letter, the corpses in the locker, Hardhome, Sam Tarly - there's too much left that Jon should be involved in.

Murrin wrote:Oh, there's absolutely no chance Jon is dead. What I meant was it might turn out to be the end of his involvement in the Night's Watch.

The other skinchanger, Bolton's letter, the corpses in the locker, Hardhome, Sam Tarly - there's too much left that Jon should be involved in.

yeah i agree. i'm not sure what the implications of this attack on jon are yet, murrin may be right on it ending his involvement in the the Night's Watch but i'm not sure of that either. mostly because Ned instilled such a strong ethic for honor in him. i can't see him voluntarily breaking those vows even tho it looked like he was going to earlier. but this could put him in a situation where he can leave the wall for a time. the implications of THAT (his absence from the wall) remain to be seen. who would take over? who IS there to take over? i just can't see where martin is going with this at all. which is why it's an interesting turn of events!

It's possible we'll see him as a renegade Lord Commander protected by the wildlings until the person the Watch replaces him with (Bowen Marsh?) brings the whole thing to ruin.

Maybe he'll lead the ranging to Hardhome with the wildlings, and return to find that they've ruined the Watch while he was gone. Could even win over Cotter Pyke during the expedition.

Not peeking yet--at about pg. 700, but the last Dany chapter: wicked! GOOO Drogon! Kill them all!!!!!

Murrin wrote:Oh, there's absolutely no chance Jon is dead. What I meant was it might turn out to be the end of his involvement in the Night's Watch.

Absolutely no chance:

From an interview with GRRM (interview contains spoilers!!!):

Spoiler

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: So why did you kill Jon Snow?
GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Oh, you think he’s dead, do you?

MsMary wrote:

Murrin wrote:Oh, there's absolutely no chance Jon is dead. What I meant was it might turn out to be the end of his involvement in the Night's Watch.

Absolutely no chance:

From an interview with GRRM (interview contains spoilers!!!):

Spoiler

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: So why did you kill Jon Snow?
GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Oh, you think he’s dead, do you?

i love george!!

at the Hangar I wrote:Arrrgh! I don't care about wargs...I don't want Jon to die!!!!!!!!!!!!! 11 years and he kills off Jon....bastard!!!!!!!!!! Dam book should have been called A Dance with Daggers!!! Grrrr...how exactly can Asha challenge for the Iron Throne? Simply because she met the Braavos banker? Martin better hurry the blank up with The Winds of Winter---what's the last book called Dragons/Wargs Fest? Is this going to end up like The Prince of Nothing where (spoiler within spoiler alert!!!)

Spoiler

a main protagonist tells all the irredeemable characters to go bugger themselves.

In any case we're going to get colder as Winter is here.

Yes figured it was the Mountain.
No missed the Frey pies...I thought Manderly was going to find a way to poison them all...
Yes they'll meet the Golden Company.
Jon's death was staged? hmmmmm