Kevin's Watch

Recap: Linden is out of the running and Esmer puts TC in a sort of coma but TC manages to pull the memories out and come back in time to challenge the Bane known as "She Who Must Not Be Named."

Ok, I know, short synapsis but I'm working on the assumption that you are all recently read of the chapter.

We start the chapter with TC's mind all over the place thanks to Esmer's help/betrayal dichotomy. The gang is all set to pitch a last ditch effort fight against unbeatable odds. Part of this helps TC center and come back to us in time to save the day. He comes back into comprehension and the first thing he does is confuse SWMNBN with the temptation of rediscovering her old identity. He confuses her as he has consistently done with women since the beginning of these books. Some his fault, some not so much. Joan, not his fault, Elena, not his fault, Linden, some his fault. Lena, all his fault, Elena, some his fault, Atiaran, all his fault. Anyway, I think that at this point in time, with Linden out of the show he realizes he has to save the day or suffer the consequence and yet his desire to still be passive is massive. He makes decisions that are huge and he pays the consequences. I think he knew on some level what would happen when he called Sunder and Hollian and ended up sacrificing Elena to SWMNBN. I also think he weighed that decision and decided that it was no longer personal anymore, he gave his own daughter to save the group, sacrifice one for the greater good but it hurt him and changed him and cemented him in ways that we will see in the future. I think that was one of the most profound sacrifices and oddly noble decisions we will encounter in the final part of this series. He is standing at an impossible point to cross and has to decide whether or not to sacrifice his own daughter to hell to save a group of twenty or let them all die a horrible death. I think I would make the same decision.

I haven't much time before I have to make dinner, but I have been meaning to make a comment about something on this chapter that has bothered me since people were pointing out lines to show that She is meant to be Love.

In a different fissure, he regarded an image which did not exist: an image which had never existed, except as a symbol or metaphor for a more profound and inarticulate truth. The image of a young woman. A woman fresh with loveliness and self-discovery. A woman brimming with new passion, ready to give and receive the kind of adoration which would define Her days. In his eyes, She was the reason that men and women had discovered love; the cause of every whole and holy desire.

I agree that this may be the intention of the author, but I am a little dissatisfied with it and hope there is more to it than she is just meant to symbolise Love.

“Not this, you haven’t.” With the back of his halfhand, Covenant lifted his ring. “You’ll recognize it as soon as you look.” His passion for Linden and the Land and life skirled among the flames: it seemed to resound from the pronged vault of the cavern. “I’m not talking about white gold or wild magic. I’m talking about what it is. A wedding band. It’s a symbol of everything you’ve ever wanted. Everything you’ve ever lost.

This is just romantic love, if even that. A wedding right stands more about commitment than love, I think. Maybe it's just me, though. But even if the most romantic of notions holds, this is just romantic love. This is not Love.

As I see it, an archetype of Love should be way more than a romance gone bad. Love would be more like a bodhisattva of compassion or so to my mind. She, as she is portrayed as a jilted, betrayed lover, is not that. The use of a wedding ring cements that for me.

But, as I said, I guess you're probably right about her meant to be Love, but tis portrayal just doesn't fit right to me.

And Jenn, that was great about TC confusing all women he meets. I have a similar take on him, too.

As for if he knew that Elena would be taken... At this point in the book, I think we can only speculate that he didn't see it specifically, but probably understood subconsciously that this chain of events would take place based on his timewardeniness past. I think, to this point, we have been given little insights to the fact that he has a plan with this stuff and is enacting it, even if he can't remember the plan.

Jenn: nice idea on TC/women. Something that never occurred to me/I need to think about...I'm not sure where it leads woven with everything else. At first blush, I think there's an equal/opposite to it as well: How much of his action/effect on them is due to the fact that what they are/represent challenges/doesn't fit with the view he thinks he needs to survive? For example the scene [in the One Tree? IIRC?] where he tries to explain to Linden his methods/interpretations for coming to terms with the world. They're just kinda out of phase with each other.

Ananda: I basically agree with what you say...but in my Grand Interpretation there's a reason for the disconnect/limit you point at. SHE is not, cannot be the Archetype, the fullness of herself, because SHE does not belong here, SHE is bound and compressed. A bit like [only on a much larger scale] the old Eastern tradition of binding women's feet, the bones themselves end up twisted, warped, grotesque.

Interesting point, Vraith, about why SWMNBN cannot fully embody her archetype. How do you interpret the implications of your theory as applied to the other immortal trapped under the Arch?

Savor Dam wrote:Interesting point, Vraith, about why SWMNBN cannot fully embody her archetype. How do you interpret the implications of your theory as applied to the other immortal trapped under the Arch?

I've spread that around among various posts/threads, so won't go too much into it, but generally much the same way. LF may in fact be the Archetype of "dark things"...the flip side of the Creator...but he too is twisted/warped by his confinement/compression. SHE and LF are supposed to be outside as the Creator, and if they touch the world at all, only AS those Archetypes, Ideals, Metaphor, Transcendence...nothing good could ever result from their literal presence within the Arch, even if they were purely true and good in essence...neither the world nor their essences can survive the encounter unharmed.

Cameraman Jenn wrote:He confuses her as he has consistently done with women since the beginning of these books.

He's trying to save everyone's life, because SWMNBN is about to devour them all, and oh yeah, doom the Earth to be devoured by the Worm ... I just can't see this as TC being a jerk to women.

I think we should add some emphasis on the other fact ... he spoke to her. Apparently no one has shown SWMNBN that much respect ... ever.

He tried to warn her that she was Foul's tool. Then he offered her her name. Then he demonstrated with the ring his fidelity to women, and thereby proving that treachery to women was not the sum total of the world. And then he offered her what she hungered for.

If you believe that TC was out to "confuse" her in the second action, then, well ... one of these things doesn't belong with the others.

I believe, first, that he was doing it to put Esmer on the line. By refusing to yield up her name, he made Esmer responsible for what happened subsequently. Secondly, I believe he wanted SWMNBN to be reminded of what she was missing, and why she could not be given it. Third, I am not wholly convinced that he wasn't willing to give her her name. Perhaps the outcome wasn't what Esmer feared.

In the future, I think SWMNBN will be more well disposed toward Covenant than she otherwise might be. That may be an insignificance, but it may not.

Lastly. In a chapter which is about responsibility and how it follows a chain of events to its source, and how it can't be denied by circumstance or waved off by ignorance, we should remember what SWMNBN is responsible for. Is she blameless for trying to slay everyone standing on that ledge?

She is, after all, evil. That's not a casual judgement - Linden felt it. Whatever SWMNBN was before, she is evil now. Covenent is guilty for Elena, but SWMNBN is also guilty for taking her. Consuming her. And that ain't nice.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Other memorable things from this chapter.

Covenant gets his ring back! This is a moment of significance. And the result is ... he doesn't use wild magic.

(Could he have destroyed SWMNBN? If so, then he spared her, and that's significant, too.)

Is this keeping with his vow to never use power again?

If this follows through to the end, then it means that Covenant doesn't need wild magic to reach whatever final conclusive resolution of his personal journey Donaldson has in mind.

Hmmm.

In [i]Against All Things Ending[/i] was wrote:After uncounted ages within the Arch, Covenant did not have enough time.

Movie Gandalf: Three hundred lives of men I’ve walked this earth and now I have no time.

What does this mean, I wonder?

In [i]Against All Things Ending[/i] was wrote:They saw clearly where their service to the Despiser would lead them in the end—and what would be required to counter the syllogisms of Lord Foul’s scorn.

Syllogisms? Logical arguments in which a proposition is inferred from two or more premises? I can't see how that fits. Except maybe to say that Foul wants them to conclude one thing from their situation, and they struggle to find another.