Kevin's Watch

Ok, I will occasionally chronicle my experience with Rocksmith here like I did the Rock Band 3 guitar learnin' (unless anybody objects).

I've had only two hours with it so far. The interface is ugly compared to Rock Band 3, and it makes less sense. And because I played Rock Band 3 on pro guitar, it actually screws me up a bit more as it is almost backwards in the way it is laid out and a couple "colored" strings are the reverse of Rock Band, which is damned confusing. So I need to clear out of my memory how Rock Band does it so that I can be more accurate.

The first day I did tuning, which was cool, and then played a couple song and got to fretting. I went up a couple levels on the songs I played so I was getting more notes thrown at me. For those unfamiliar with this product, once it sees you are doing okay at one skill level, it increases and give you more notes. Which, as one reviewer wrote about this, is confusing, as part of learning the song is knowing what is coming up next. Something that Rock Band 3 does. You increase the difficulty yourself, so with Rocksmith increasing it on the fly makes for better progression, but harder to "learn" the song, at least until you are playing the full thing. And as near as I can tell, there is no way to manually adjust. But as most song have the same thing going on throughout the song, it isn't such a big deal.

Yesterday, I played a few more songs, and fiddled with the technique training sections. I went up several more levels, and it appears that as you play new songs, it starts you off at the most basic level, as near as I can tell, and adjusts as you go along. But it does remember where you left on the last time you played the song, so not too much of a concern. What is nice about Rocksmith over Rock Band 3 is that it does not fail you out of a song if you blow it (although I turn on no-fail mode in Rock Band 3, but get nervous once things start flashing bad colors to let you know you would fail out otherwise). And Rocksmith does not dock you for hitting wrong notes, or experimenting between playing what they are saying you should play.

I was introduced to palm muting under techniques, as the Red Hot Chili Peppers song used it, but I can't get it to take it with my setup, which is an acoustic with a pickup. Either that or I'm doing it wrong, and can't figure out the right way, despite doing just what their video shows. I suspect it might be because it was designed for electric, but they say you can use acoustic. Regardless, it is a little irritating.

I also discovered in a Queens Of The Stone Age song that I'm not a quick strummer. It's something I'll have to work on. And double stops seem to be a bit beyond me at the moment, at least until I get used to the strings on my acoustic over the fret buttons of the pro guitar in Rock Band 3.

One thing with using the real guitar over the Mustang with buttons for Rock Band 3 is the little quirks the Rock Band 3 pro-guitar had are gone, and I can't blame the problem on the system anymore. Which is kind of depressing. But a lot of my failure is due to the interface. I don't like it nearly as much, but it is a period of adjustment.

Anyway, it is kind of fun, but lots of work. I do feel like I'm learning the guitar, and the songs are fun to play, but the rest is work work work, which is what learning the damn guitar is all about. Once I get into chords is when this thing is going to come alive, from my perspective, as Rock Band 3 had shoddy instructions for playing, and this one is definitely aimed at the novice, which I am. I suspect it will kick out some of the bad habits I picked up from Rock Band 3. But I am very excited about returning to Rock Band 3 after a heap of time with Rocksmith, because I do like the song choices better.

I had my eye on this, and I'm still interested in grabbing it... for someone who's only played the Guitar Hero games, and never played a real guitar, how do you think it would do for teaching me?

Rigel wrote:I had my eye on this, and I'm still interested in grabbing it... for someone who's only played the Guitar Hero games, and never played a real guitar, how do you think it would do for teaching me?

I'm definitely going to pick it up, probably relatively soon. I'm a "I know lots of chords and can strum" player...what we called a "rhythm player" back in the day, just FYI...a local music store had it set up for customers to mess around with, and it seems to me like a pretty good teaching set up. Possibly a fairly steep learning curve for an absolute beginner...but it's been a long time since I was complete beginner, so maybe not, especially with 2 things mentioned in the original post...training and the fact it doesn't kick you out.

Rigel wrote:I had my eye on this, and I'm still interested in grabbing it... for someone who's only played the Guitar Hero games, and never played a real guitar, how do you think it would do for teaching me?

Probably fairly well. It's actually a better beginner instruction tool than Rock Band 3, although Rock Band 3 makes a bit more sense for those who have played Guitar Hero games. The timing marks are so much more clear in Rock Band than Rocksmith, which is what I'd say my main complaint is with the interface. But there are several instructional videos from the very basics of holding the guitar to holding a pick and such. I honestly think it is designed for the person who has never touched one before, whereas Rock Band 3 leaves out several things and pretty much shows you the interface and gives some ideas about the best way to finger the frets. I've not watched the video in Rocksmith on chords and so forth, so I can't say much for it yet as far as that goes, so I can't comment on that yet (where best to place your fingers, that is). It does start VERY basic, and you are just plucking a few strings along with the song. They have stickers with some of the numbers to put along the bridge for quick identification on your guitar, but I have been avoiding putting those on my guitar so far, but I'm thinking of putting them on for quick finding as I have been blowing a lot that I wouldn't because of having to do quick math a few times.
Rock Band 3 is very helpful because you can see on the screen what fret you are holding which Rocksmith doesn't. Rocksmith does tell you AFTER you have hit it incorrectly if you need to move down a string or move up or down a fret.
All in all, if you get used to Rocksmith first, it will be a bonus as there are several things in Rock Band 3 interface I like, and many features I like in Rocksmith. But I definitely feel like I am starting over with Rocksmith to some degree, but am catching on quickly. I just wish they had copied Rock Band 3 a bit more, but all in all, for the stuff you play it is similar to Guitar Hero in that there are little blobs coming at you and you must hit them in time with the music. For that, it is similar. However, you are holding down real strings now instead of buttons, and that is a new challenge. Rock Band 3 has the option of a real guitar (for $300 +), so if that sounds better (and in my opinion, the song choice is better, and has a lot more choices for downloadable songs at this time), you will struggle a bit more as a beginner, but can look up most of the videos that Rocksmith delivers on the web. So, I guess let me lay it out like this:

Rock Band 3 (game costs about $20 these days everywhere except Amazon, and most basic pro-guitar costs $150 or less, and the real stringed Squier guitar was running about $300 originally, but could be less now (edit: Just looked it up and it appears they are not making it anymore, so new you are looking at over $600))
PROS:
-has a style and interface a bit more similar to what you are familiar with
-Can still play the "toy" guitars while learning the real thing (I'm fairly sure the majority of Guitar Hero guitars work with Rock Band)
-Lots more song choice, and better songs to download
-More fun
-Consistent difficulty through the song, and you can choose the difficulty before you begin the song.
-They have an array of training sessions both for general skills as well as training for each song that you can slow down and work through a part until you get it
-You can see on screen what your fingering is, and you don't need to look at your guitar as much, which is helpful for a beginner.
-When training, if you blow a note, it will tell you where you need to put your fingers in a way that makes sense, and have printing on the screen that tells you which fingers to use to make it easiest for the chords. After the initial try, you have to blow it a couple more times before it will put it back up on the screen.
CONS:
-If you blow a note, it counts against you.
-If you pick something not on the screen, it counts against you
-You can fail out (unless you put it on no-fail mode, which is just a setting in options) and the song ends.
-The hardware I have which is the Mustang has buttons for each fret and strings for strumming/picking. It ran $150 when I bought it after it came out, but I am fairly sure it is cheaper now. Let me just say that the hardware is inconsistent on string detection - sometimes I pluck the string and it doesn't identify it. I have learned that the string responds better if I upstrum rather than downstrum on certain strings, and the opposite on the other strings. Because of this, I'd recommend the Squier guitar for $300+ if you choose to go this route, but I can't say how much better it would be at detection, or if you can replace strings. But the Squier I would think would work with Rocksmith whereas the Mustang does not.
-At least on the Mustang, there is no string replacement, although they are hard metal strings, and it would take quite a pull to ruin them, but if you do, you're screwed.

Rocksmith (costs about $80 for game and cable to plug into USB port and 1/4" plug to plug into electric. If you have an acoustic, you'll need a pick-up which varies in price, but I got mine for about $20-30. There is a bundle that includes an electric, and looks to run just under $300)
PROS:
-Very good instructions for a new player
-Can use that guitar sitting in the back of the closet for years collecting dust that you never bothered to learn. Electrics just plug right in with a special cable that comes with the game. Acoustic needs a pick-up, which there are almost no information out there about what to buy, but I was given one that was specially made for tuning and cutting out a lot of outside noise that supposedly ran around $20.
-Has games to play that focus on a particular skill. The only one I've unlocked so far is called Ducks that train you on finding the fret quickly.
Has technique videos as well as "challenges" that work you on techniques such as string bends, sustains, etc.
-It increases the difficulty as you show off the ability to handle the notes, and decreases the difficulty if you can't hack it.
-Has a tuner included with it that is the same as an electric tuner that you'd buy at the store, but is slightly easier to use.
-It gives recommendations as to the next thing you should do (usually three recommendations), so it guides you a bit more, but you can ignore this and go on and do whatever you want
-Doesn't increase the speed of the interface like Rock Band/Guitar Hero does on the harder difficulties (at least it hasn't in what I've played).
-It does keep pushing your skills.
CONS:
-The interface sucks, and so far, I have trouble figuring out the timing of the notes, particularly if I don't know the song already. Rock Band/Guitar Hero had measures and half measure lines that gave a better indication of the timing of these things. I'll see several notes, but can't quite tell when to hit them without following them a bit closer to the "play now" line. There has already been a couple times where I can't tell if one note is played before or after the other note close to it, as they are different strings and further down the fretboard.
-When playing further down the fret, it will shift the view to show you where you are playing next, but can be disorienting. Since I'm playing as a beginner, it hasn't been too hard so far to follow, but I suspect it will be hard to follow in sudden shifts once you get better.
-It increases/decreases the difficulty as you are playing, so it is rarely the same song twice, except once you can play the sucker all the way through on whatever the top difficulty is. It sounded like a bonus, and it is to a degree as you don't stagnate like you can with Rock Band 3, resting on your ability to play easy, and intimidated by medium. But it also makes it difficult to learn the difficult parts as it keeps subtly changing what you must play.
-It doesn't "fail out" like Rock Band 3 does without no-fail mode on, but you don't "qualify" for events, so they recommend practicing again before taking on the events (which is just basically playing the song again, but in front of a video game audience). But it doesn't drop out mid-song, which is a plus.
-It is new, so there isn't much out there to download yet, and I haven't seen anything that I would pay money for, particularly since a couple are already on Rock Band 3. This is a bit unfair as they are just starting, but I hope they get something I will get excited about once I get sick of the songs they already have.
-As I said before because of my layout, I don't think I can get palm muting to work, so it may be that some techniques don't work on acoustics, but that's yet to be seen.
-While I haven't experienced it, a lot of reviewers I read said they had problems with lag on their tvs.
-The load times are frequently long, and you have to check each time you start an activity to make sure the guitar is in tune. And when you finish a song, it will put you back on the recommendation page instead of at the main menu which sucks if you just want to try out the different songs.
-It feels like more work than fun compared with Rock Band.

While it seems like I'm complaining more about Rocksmith, I honestly like it pretty well as a learning tool. Some I just have to adjust to. Honestly, the cons with Rock Band 3 weigh a lot heavier than those with Rocksmith - namely the hardware. Both will get you there with enough practice, which is the name of the game with learning an instrument. But I doubt either will make you a guitar rock god. But both should get you off the ground and running, depending on how much dedication you choose to put into it.
For me personally, the jury is still out on which I ultimately like better.

I just checked, and the pc version doesn't come out until may. Hopefully some more tracks will be released by then, and the interface can be tweaked so people like it more.

That said, I'm still really interested in this.

Okay, now that I've explored Rocksmith a bit more, I'm liking it more and more. I feel like I am learning much more with this than Rock Band 3, although I think I'm better at Rock Band 3 pro-guitar.
They also had a new update recently that fixed several of my complaints with the menu system that was especially clunky, so I'm feeling even better about it now.
I finally explored something I had been avoiding for a while, which is an alternate tuning for the guitar from E-standard to drop D. Piece of cake, but there are just certain songs you can't play until you retune, which is something I didn't want to do with the limited time I have to play.
Something I think I haven't mentioned too much is that there is an "event manager" that guides you through what may be the easier songs to play to the harder, and increases the difficulty as you go along. You have to "qualify" to play some of these events, so you rehearse the songs you will play in your upcoming gig set, and once you hit this magic number of points, you can continue on to play the gig. But you can also go ahead and do whatever the hell you want, which is what I do for a bit, but I like the idea of progress, so I usually start by going through the event manager and try to get through whatever it is that I'm trying to get through so I can move on to the next gig. After the gig, you unlock a new venue and other virtual extras, like a new guitar to play, kinda like Guitar Hero with unlockable and buyable guitars and outfits. It adds to the game play, but really makes no real difference. You are still playing the songs, and I don't think there are any songs locked at the beginning, although I can't say for sure. I just haven't seen any new ones unlocking yet, and I'm considered "level 3" now, whatever that means. I've probably played somewhere between 5-7 gigs so far, so it isn't related to anything but progression points, which seem fairly meaningless to me so far other than to give you a sense of progression, which is fine.
Once you complete a gig, if you do well enough, you are granted an encore, which is playing a song you weren't set to rehearse before the gig, but is available from the beginning to play outside of the event manager. As whenever I get frustrated with not making the qualification for the gig, I usually skip over and play a new song or work on one I liked. I still haven't gotten through all the songs, for some reason. I guess because several gave me problems in "qualifying." So I was somewhat wrong in my thinking that you can't fail out - it just doesn't fail you out in the same way that Rock Band does - in the middle of a song. You finish the song, but you aren't good enough at it yet to progress to the gig. So you have to play the entire song again, which can be annoying with the longer and more awful songs. But I usually qualify the second or sometimes third time I try, with the exception of one song I just couldn't get down for the longest time, and came to hate. I think it took me 6 times or so to finally qualify, but I think the bar for qualifying was set higher than the others, because it was the last gig before raising a "level." The progression points usually go through the roof after you've played a gig, so they seem to be just be part of the game aspect, although they certainly keep going up with you trying out other things, and you can almost certain move to the next level before you finish whatever gig you are working on. There is a bar that colors from left to right and once you hit the right, you go up another level. People with role playing game experience will recognize this type of thing, and probably why I refer to it as a "level," as I don't remember if the game ever specifically calls it that.
Regardless, it is getting more fun, especially now that they have improved the menu system and it won't be a tedious moving around within it to get to what I want to do. But it seems rather than meaningless points and such, I do definitely show improvement. And the first song I attempted last night I got 93% of the notes hit on a song I had never played before. My wife was watching and was somewhat impressed. So it definitely looks to be working.

Edit: And one thing I wanted to mention - I really enjoy playing the single note arrangements, but the event manager usually moves me through combo arrangements, which is a mixture of single notes and the occasional chords, which might end up being primarily chords once I get good enough at the song. But there are all chord arrangements as well. Most songs have single note arrangements and a combo arrangement, but it depends on the song what others they have. Some have two combo arrangements as well, which I suspect is between lead and rhythm parts.

Heh, Cag, I'm enjoying your updates...if you keep it up you'll have to attend next elofest and put on a show, post it live in concert on youtube for peeps who don't/can't attend to see.

Rig: I was so mad about that...I thought PC was set for same release date, and I'd get it at/around xmas. Then they pushed it back. Semi-consolation, my birthday is May, so I have something to put on my wish-list which is usually just "I don't care, it's just a day."

Unfortunately, the way my budget is going this year I'm not sure I'll be able to spring for it, as I have to buy a guitar as well, and I'd rather save my money for the min-e-fest in the fall. But I'm still hoping that I can pull enough together...

I know for the consoles they had a bundle with a cheapo guitar, but I think it still goes for $250. So you might be able to get a better deal with a used, as the game is $80 by itself. I'd probably recommend an electric, as I think it was designed for such, and it would be quieter for those times when you need it to be quiet.

I just saw that Gamestop is currently selling Rocksmith for 30% off, which looks to be $49.99. Now's a good time to pick it up even if you don't have the guitar yet. Just sayin...

My wife is thinking about taking the plunge on this one. She really wants to learn to play guitar. Have you stuck with it? Are you still learning and getting better?

We just got my son a kickass keyboard, and I'm looking into a new set of electric drums. My older son plays bass. We might just start a band.

This is one where having a strong fan base makes a difference, in terms of convincing the studio to continue updating the game, releasing new content, etc.

Now that it's been out a while, how do people feel about it? Is it getting plenty of love from the devs? Or is it like the forgotten step-child?

Sorry for the wait on the update. I'm working with it, but haven't had much time lately. I got an electric for Christmas so my interest is renewed. I'm still finding Rock Band 3 more fun, but this is a better tool for learning. I'm playing it when I can and definitely getting better. In particular, I'm weak on the chords and better with the single string variations, but there was a Guitarcade game that is helping me get better with chords. I think it's called Chord of the Dead or something like that. Hit the chords and kill zombies is the game. Simplistic, but a decent fun tool. I suck at it, of course.
I'd definitely recommend picking it up for a new learner though. It much more fun than sitting down with a book, but not as structured. But it starts off with the simpler songs first, and moves to the harder stuff.
Honestly, if I'd change anything about the "game," I'd make it so you could set it to have the same level of difficulty for each play of the song and allow yourself to be able to bump the difficulty instead of the game deciding when you are ready mid-song. It's really the main, and about the only, thing that particularly annoys me about it. But it a nasty hurdle to overcome. But it's a good teacher overall. From reviews I read before getting the game, it will save you money on private lessons for a while.
Again, I just wish I had more time to work with it though.

We love this game. My son (12) has been bored with Band Hero for several years now, but he can't put this down. He plays past the point when his fingers hurt.

I downloaded the bass expansion for myself. I haven't played bass in years, but my older son brought his over to play the game, and it was like riding a bike. My muscles aren't used to it, but my fingers still know what to do. It's fun being good at one of these games right from the beginning. I think I might just buy a bass.

Excellent. I'm glad to hear it. What do you think of the changing difficulty mid-song?

I actually like the changing difficulty. It makes me try harder and I don't get bored. Having the option of being able to toggle through different difficulty settings myself would have been nice, too, but I don't mind the way it is.

Did your version have guitar and bass from the beginning? I've got a friend who purchased one that was labeled right on the box that it was for both bass and guitar, whereas mine didn't mention this. I didn't really like having to pay an extra $20 to have the bass expansion.

Is there a version for drums and/or keyboard?

I frickin love this game! I can't even think of it as a game anymore. This is a cyber-tutor. I've downloaded the Rush pack, which includes 4 songs (Tom Sawyer, YYZ, Limelight, Subdivisions) and I've also purchased one additional tune from their new album, Headlong Flight. I've been playing most of these for years on the bass, but only by ear. And I've been missing quite a bit of nuance, I've now learned. Being able to go through each section note-by-note in the Riff Repeater, slowing it down until I get it, increasing the level until I'm playing all the notes, is something I've been wishing for all my bass playing life. If I'd had this at 14, I don't think I'd ever left the house! Riff Repeater ... I can't stress it enough ... it's the next best thing to having Geddy Lee in my home showing me what to play, and then correcting my playing in real time. Amazing.

[Edit: just wanted to add that I think playing an electric would be much better than acoustic. Not only is it easier to play electric (lower action on the strings, thinner strings), but each song has a particular effects mix so that your guitar sounds like the guitar in the song. This is really cool, but might get lost a bit if you're hearing both your acoustic strings and the mix coming out of the speakers. Also, there *is* a slight delay, which would be exacerbated by hearing two sources of sound.

I like to keep my amp in the room with me, so I can just unplug from one to the other when I'm in the mood to practice and jam. I've got a vintage 70's Fender Bassman Ten amp that sounds sweeeet, thick and luscious.]

Actually, they didn't have bass available at the beginning, but there was an update that added it, and I didn't pay anything for it.
I've not fiddled with Riff Repeater much, mainly because it hasn't gotten so hard that I can't just figure it out mid-song. But I suspect it will get that hard pretty soon, and will need to slow it down. I don't think I've gotten 100% on any song yet though.
I checked the DLC song list recently and found they have a lot more songs now that I honestly want. My tastes are pretty picky, so I'm glad to see stuff I'd want to get. But as it is right now, I don't tend to buy songs for this, and would rather buy more songs for Rock Band, (a) because I have a lot more use for songs for Rock Band as I can practice the keyboard as well as the pro-guitar on that, and (b) we still have Rock Band parties occasionally. So the singers in our group love to have new songs. I understand you can plug in a mike and sing the songs, which I'd like to try sometime, but it definitely limits the party atmosphere, since none of my friends play guitar (or bass). I haven't tried the bass yet, and suspect I'd be a better bass player than guitar player since I'm fairly good with the single note configuration, but suck when it comes to chords, except for the simple ones.
But yeah, Rocksmith is definitely shaping up to be a much better game than when I first bought it. The updates keep adding more to the game, rather just fixing problems. Which is cool. I wonder if they will ever come out with sequel, or if it is even necessary.
I found out the other day that the weekly DLC for Rock Band is coming to an end on April 1, which pretty much spells the end of Rock Band, as they are sending the resources to other projects. So that sucks, although I think the Rock Band Network songs might continue, as they are created by the community, although I almost have never heard of any of the songs, which sucks. But with Rocksmith shaping up and making things better, while it still is not as "fun," it definitely is a better "cyber-tutor" than anything else out there.
And yes...now that I've got an electric, it is tons better than the acoustic I was using. It is supported, but only barely.

Ahem...

I bought a guitar yesterday.

Wednesday my cable will be arriving from Amazon, and I'll download the game from Steam.

Rock on.

I'm finding myself lately salivating over ads for awesome basses ... like Fender's P/J bass, a mix of their Precision and Jazz models, with a thick body and thin neck, active electronics from both versions to replicate a wide array of sounds. I saw one on Craig's list for $500! Such a deal. But I'd feel kind of silly only using it to play in my living room. That baby needs to hear the roar of the crowd.