Kevin's Watch

Why does Linden need the Staff? It doesn't work against the skurj (or so my memory tells me), it's limited by Kevin's Dirt, etc.

And why did the Worm wake up when she used the Staff and the ring to resurrect Covenant? If wild expenditures of power are all it takes, well...

However, the original Staff, and this one in a way, both derive from the One Tree, which Tree served as the original location of the Worm's quiescence. Now of all the passages in the 2nd Chronicles that might indicate an important part of the puzzle in the Last, what about the question as to whether the One Tree survived the Isle's submersion at the end of book 5?

So here's my theory. The connection between the Staff and the Tree is part of why such an extreme use of the Staff woke the Worm up. I don't know how, but somehow, the connection is there. Maybe the Tree is gone, no less (now that the Worm started to devour the ocean?), and what Linden needs the Staff for is to grow a new One, so that the Worm will go back to sleep around it.

And this might help her fulfill her promise to Caerroil Wildwood, to boot. QED

Well, for one thing, the Staff is needed to combat caesures. And heal people. And fend of Roger's attacks. And the croyel's. It's also a handy Hazard disarming device.

The Worm woke up because too much power was used. It may have been the particular kind of power. It may have been that wild magic and earthpower combined is really annoying to a sleeping Worm.

The One Tree may have survived - Findail says it did - but the narrative has moved beyond it and it doesn't really matter. No one needs to make a Staff. So it's lost significance.

Do you think there's enough time to grow a One Tree?

What if the other One Tree is still around? If it is, it kinds sinks your theory.

wayfriend wrote:Well, for one thing, the Staff is needed to combat caesures. And heal people. And fend of Roger's attacks. And the croyel's. It's also a handy Hazard disarming device.

Yeah, I should've thought of all of that... I guess I was just going on the vague stress of "need," here. The orcrest Liand wields proved handy in many situations, but there was just one ultimate reason for it.

The Worm woke up because too much power was used. It may have been the particular kind of power. It may have been that wild magic and earthpower combined is really annoying to a sleeping Worm.

This is an issue that has troubled me since I first compared the wild magic-Illearth Stone conflict to the wild magic-Banefire conflict. Why did the one threaten to break the Arch and the other didn't? I asked in another thread: why was no Elohim Appointed to guard the Blood of the Earth?

But I'll say more in a second.

The One Tree may have survived - Findail says it did - but the narrative has moved beyond it and it doesn't really matter. No one needs to make a Staff. So it's lost significance.

It may seem that way, and I was way too drunk and high a lot of the first time I read Against All Things Ending to remember it, but I just got to start rereading it today, and I read:

"And when we have permitted powers such as Forestals, or the Colossus of the Fall, to be fashioned from our essence, we have done so to refresh the corresponding vitality of the One Tree, that we may be left in peace... Our purpose is peace..."

That's Infelice describing one of the primary motives of the Elohim (pg. 28). And she also regards the start of the "true decline" of the Earth towards its final straits as the moment when the Theomach became the protector of the One Tree (29). And the question about truth and beauty that Linden is obligated to answer was asked by a spirit of remnants of the One Forest. And then there's Anele's dichotomy of the world's essential problem as seen from the perspectives of wood and stone.

EDIT (2): Wait a second. The reason the Elohim allows powers to be fashioned from themselves is in order to protect the One Tree. Therefore, Findail allowed himself to become part of the new Staff of Law, for the sake of the One Tree. Granted, the Sunbane would've endangered the Isle if left unchecked.

Do you think there's enough time to grow a One Tree?

Revelwood, if I remember, grew faster than normal. It seems the Staff of Law can accelerate growth, like the emerald Sunbane (incidentally, the one that sickened Linden the most) but without torturing the life it transforms. With wild magic also at whoever's side, who knows?

What if the other One Tree is still around? If it is, it kinds sinks your theory.

Yeah, but a lot of me doubts the One Tree could survive the destruction reported at the end of AATE.

EDIT: Or if it survived, then like Revelwood and the destroyed Woodhelven from FR, it could be made greater than it was. Enough to contain even the ravenous force trying to devour the Earth now?

Another thought: why do the Elohim not just give up when the Worm wakes up? Unless they ultimately have some deep faith that, if the outsiders could damn the Earth, maybe they really can somehow save it. But what does Linden have especially to empower herself with? Her Staff.

EDIT (3): The soul in which the flower grows survives. In The Neverending Story, Fantastica's relationship with Earth is similar to the Land's relationship to Earth: not real in the normal sense, but having a spiritual impact on it. That ideal world is regrown from a seed. But anyway, some people think Wildwood infused the Staff with the essence of the Land's past. Like a memory of it, almost. What is a soul in which flowers dead with the world's destruction grow? Memory? So maybe Linden and Covenant will remember the beauty of the Land, and that will allow them to survive the last dark.

EDIT (4): Not to mention that the original Staff was what allowed people from "outside Time" into the Land in the first place. So was it always built into the Land's Earth's nature that it could call on those outsiders (through some power inhering in the One Tree wherefrom which the Staff was necessarily forged) to intercede in its destiny?

I guess I have always viewed the Staff as on a par with white gold as far as the Land's soteriology goes, this because of the twofold ending of White Gold Wielder, Linden's partial identification with the Staff, and the author's express love for this character. Or so it seems/QED.

EDIT: You also have to consider how much this series is about environmental ethics. Like, it's gotten to the point in the GI where Donaldson is applying abstract moral concepts to concepts like entropy. If you were ever gonna do a good job of a particular environmental ethic better than, say, Immanuel Kant's, or Hannah Arendt's, or whoever's (probably better that I don't know of), well, this could be one Way to go.

HOPEFULLY LAST EDIT:

Preface: I'm blazed. So read at your discretion. But it's pointed out (pg. 52) that the lore of the ur-viles and Waynhim is able to locate Linden's son. So there's an affinity between the unnatural power of the ur-viles/Waynhim and Jeremiah's special power? If all the Elohim were drawn into a construct like a tower built out of the essence of Vain, or merged with all the ur-viles and Waynhim, or some Chosen Waynhim, or whatever, that would be liable to generate, in a flash of great light, a great Tree, inasmuch as the Staff of Law is like unto a branch of the first Tree. Maybe that's the purpose they began with Vain. I'm just picturing all this in my head and half-wishing for it.

When you are done answering your own questions, let us know.
Just kidding.
I think Donaldson's gone that route twice already. One, we see it slowly unfold. Vain/Findail into the new Staff.
The new staff has no connection to the One Tree. It has a connection, through the bands, to the old staff.
The other time, is of course, the Colossus. We haven't seen that, yet. But that is what happened. It is mentioned that there was a third such instance.
Each was done to protect something specific. The Colossus to protect the One Forest. Kastenessan to protect the cap at the pole. Findail to restore the Law. They didn't reshape an Elohim into a guardian. One got left there. Ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol took care of that Elohim.

SGuilfoyle1966 wrote:The new staff has no connection to the One Tree. It has a connection, through the bands, to the old staff.

Hi SGuilfoyle1966!

There's another connection with the old Staff/One Tree because in the Cavern of the One Tree Vain is struck by one of the 'stars' that eventually kill Seadreamer. These 'stars' are related to the Worm and thus related to the One Tree.

u.

ussusimiel wrote:

SGuilfoyle1966 wrote:The new staff has no connection to the One Tree. It has a connection, through the bands, to the old staff.

Hi SGuilfoyle1966!

There's another connection with the old Staff/One Tree because in the Cavern of the One Tree Vain is struck by one of the 'stars' that eventually kill Seadreamer. These 'stars' are related to the Worm and thus related to the One Tree.

u.

Vain decided to branch off on a new direction after that cave dive. A new interest sprouted in him. Though the trip did really sap his strength. Still, he turned over a new leaf.

What were all those stars at the site of the one tree? Possibly new Elohim, children of the Worm, to replace the old ones when the Worm is put back to sleep?

RaverRats wrote:What were all those stars at the site of the one tree? Possibly new Elohim, children of the Worm, to replace the old ones when the Worm is put back to sleep?

Hi RaverRats!

They are supposed to be the Creator's children, aren't they? I agree with your idea that they may also become Elohim, however, now that the Worm is awake it's going to take a lot of 'food' or something else entirely to put it back to sleep.

u.

Mighara Sovmadhi wrote:Maybe the Tree is gone, no less (now that the Worm started to devour the ocean?), and what Linden needs the Staff for is to grow a new One, so that the Worm will go back to sleep around it.

I never thought about anyone trying to plant or grow a new One Tree before--that is brilliant! I wonder if it is possible, though? We still don't know what those runes are for or what they mean....

ussusimiel wrote:

SGuilfoyle1966 wrote:The new staff has no connection to the One Tree. It has a connection, through the bands, to the old staff.

Hi SGuilfoyle1966!

There's another connection with the old Staff/One Tree because in the Cavern of the One Tree Vain is struck by one of the 'stars' that eventually kill Seadreamer. These 'stars' are related to the Worm and thus related to the One Tree.

u.

also vain's arm is turned to wood by the stars.

Also, Wildwood's lore can be traced back to the Elohim whereby the Forestals exist, which existence was meant to safeguard (indirectly, as Infelice implies in her early AATE discussion) the One Tree. By transitivity, whatever of the Tree is in the Elohim is now in the new Staff.

Hirebrand Gilden wrote:

ussusimiel wrote:

SGuilfoyle1966 wrote:The new staff has no connection to the One Tree. It has a connection, through the bands, to the old staff.

Hi SGuilfoyle1966!

There's another connection with the old Staff/One Tree because in the Cavern of the One Tree Vain is struck by one of the 'stars' that eventually kill Seadreamer. These 'stars' are related to the Worm and thus related to the One Tree.

u.

also vain's arm is turned to wood by the stars.

The Ur-vile loremasters must be seriously skilled at foretelling the future if they knew what would happen at the Isle of the One Tree. They created Vain with a secret Purpose, but this Purpose could only come to fruition through contact with one of those stars; and the star has to aim for an arm as if the star knew Vain's purpose. Weird.

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

Hirebrand Gilden wrote:

ussusimiel wrote: Hi SGuilfoyle1966!

There's another connection with the old Staff/One Tree because in the Cavern of the One Tree Vain is struck by one of the 'stars' that eventually kill Seadreamer. These 'stars' are related to the Worm and thus related to the One Tree.

u.

also vain's arm is turned to wood by the stars.

The Ur-vile loremasters must be seriously skilled at foretelling the future if they knew what would happen at the Isle of the One Tree. They created Vain with a secret Purpose, but this Purpose could only come to fruition through contact with one of those stars; and the star has to aim for an arm as if the star knew Vain's purpose. Weird.

It could very well be that they placed star-magnets in his arm. The rest was accomplished by the Dead telling Covenant to go to the Isle of the One Tree and Elohim machinations.

shadowbinding shoe wrote:

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

Hirebrand Gilden wrote: also vain's arm is turned to wood by the stars.

The Ur-vile loremasters must be seriously skilled at foretelling the future if they knew what would happen at the Isle of the One Tree. They created Vain with a secret Purpose, but this Purpose could only come to fruition through contact with one of those stars; and the star has to aim for an arm as if the star knew Vain's purpose. Weird.

It could very well be that they placed star-magnets in his arm. The rest was accomplished by the Dead telling Covenant to go to the Isle of the One Tree and Elohim machinations.

The star-magnets idea is a-textual, but likely as true as saying that Vain drew it to his arm with his mental powers.

Ananda wrote:

ussusimiel wrote:

SGuilfoyle1966 wrote:The new staff has no connection to the One Tree. It has a connection, through the bands, to the old staff.

Hi SGuilfoyle1966!

There's another connection with the old Staff/One Tree because in the Cavern of the One Tree Vain is struck by one of the 'stars' that eventually kill Seadreamer. These 'stars' are related to the Worm and thus related to the One Tree.

u.

Vain decided to branch off on a new direction after that cave dive. A new interest sprouted in him. Though the trip did really sap his strength. Still, he turned over a new leaf.

LOL

Mighara Sovmadhi wrote: However, the original Staff, and this one in a way, both derive from the One Tree, which Tree served as the original location of the Worm's quiescence. Now of all the passages in the 2nd Chronicles that might indicate an important part of the puzzle in the Last, what about the question as to whether the One Tree survived the Isle's submersion at the end of book 5?

So here's my theory. The connection between the Staff and the Tree is part of why such an extreme use of the Staff woke the Worm up. I don't know how, but somehow, the connection is there. Maybe the Tree is gone, no less (now that the Worm started to devour the ocean?), and what Linden needs the Staff for is to grow a new One, so that the Worm will go back to sleep around it.

I've only assumed that the original One Tree was destroyed during the Illearth War, when Satanfist's army stormed the inner gate.

And yet I cannot recall if the hoary old Gilden was ever mentioned again after the war. So perhaps it wasn't really trampled underfoot and utterly destroyed outright. Could the tree have magically uproots and relocated to the middle of the sea?
Or was there never actually a One Tree at all, in the second chronicles?

The Worm has to be Stephen Donaldson.
The One Tree is a masterpiece of convoluted literature prose.
The fact that the Staff and Ring stir the Worm to wakefulness suggests that this is what HE needs - to figure it out

Nothing else makes sense.

Mighara Sovmadhi wrote:
So here's my theory. The connection between the Staff and the Tree is part of why such an extreme use of the Staff woke the Worm up. I don't know how, but somehow, the connection is there. Maybe the Tree is gone, no less (now that the Worm started to devour the ocean?), and what Linden needs the Staff for is to grow a new One, so that the Worm will go back to sleep around it.

I still don't think that the Worm is literally devouring anything other than Earthpower.
Anything physical being destroyed is only a byproduct.

I do like that "grow a new One" idea.
SRD made it perfectly clear at the end of WGW that the new staff was *living*.....

I still think that the One Tree is really a horn like structure on top of the Worm's head like a unicorn.

Here's a question that might be silly but might not: can wild magic KILL the Worm? And if it did, what would happen?

Horrim Carabal wrote:Here's a question that might be silly but might not: can wild magic KILL the Worm? And if it did, what would happen?

ooooohhhhh....hmmmmm....
It depends, and because of that, I don't know. NOT within the Arch without destroying the World, I would say.
Everything else...
what is the Worm?
Is it immortal like the Elohim?
or IMmortal like creator/she/lf?
Is it necessary, like dying?
or all Fated, like Death?
Metaphysical Conception/Ideal?
or physical, pragmatic, concrete?
Or some mixture of them?
In my "thing" on the Chrons, the Arch, and the Worm/Wurd are the bridges between the realms...so the answer would be no. But that's me.