Kevin's Watch

Somehow this got inhumed into the bitspace; re-posting as partially redrawn. Still a mess, tho.

Would very much appreciate some feedback, particularly concerning the ur-viles. They appear quite much like how I visualized them in LFB and onwards, and yes, they do have shorter limbs than a plain human of that size would possess. Still, don't want to unduly transform them into dachshunds.



Back row characters: Kindwind (one-armed curlylocks), Cabledarm (huge short-haired lump of muscle), 'Lax Blunderfoot' Latebirth (eyepatch gal), and a Loremaster named Örxx currently trying to learn Swedish in order to fathom why a mesmerized fangirl keeps chasing his wedge.

Yes it's another sitting picture, but getting an eye contact to function between two such mismatched parties in an image becomes challenging, particularly when Covenant's eye level would sit somewhere around Grueburn's unmentionables. For the same reason, chain mail bikinis become a massive no-no. As brave and mighty as they are, the haruchai wouldn't know where to place their gazes.

Not going to change the Swordmainnir much, though, since they appear akin to this in my head complete with distinct personalities and backstories. They don't need to radiate smoldering sexiness or unearthly beauty, but appear like skilled soldiers who have fought for centuries. More Tattersail and less Wonderwoman.

Off with the loin cloths!

See, this is precisely why the little guy's distressed. What if *I* abruptly pranced out of a random bush and demanded Grimmand to get naked? I say; no decorum!

Love it!! My only critique is that the Giantesses' eyes scare me. Also I pictured the ur-viles' heads as less humanoid, with longer snouts dominated by longer nostril slits and what mouth was a slit at the end of the snout... that's my picture. I like the tender-looking ears. And let's just say that I appreciate the rearward perspective in Covenant... In general your rendering shows so much skill and talent. I love seeing your under-sketching. Well done.

Hmm...can you pin down the scare-effect in greater detail? Bad downscaling? Too much lashes? Too large eyes in general? (Yes I make them larger than those of actual realistic humans...part of the comic style.)

I generally find eyes the hardest part of the face; keep often re-drawing their expression multiple times.

Some closeups if it aids the matter:





May appear different if colored/shaded, though the First throws quite a frown too:



(Need to go to sleep now, returning to this with better time later. Thanks! )

I imagined the ur-viles differently as well, but that should be expected) Particularly the proportions - much shorter arms and legs, and also less human-like and developed hands, with more elongated bodies to compensate for the size detracted by the legs length. But I see where you get your reasoning as well.

Hard to give much feedback though, your artwork, as always, is tremendously good, how are we supposed to find flaws when we're admiring it? By the way, have you seen my comment about the amount of time and effort for the fanfic illustrations here? kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22383

Is Covenant looking at her armpit though?)

Great shot, Frostheart! ur-viles are one of the trickier elements of the Chronicles to capture. I wonder if you have looked at some of the other attempts heareabouts?

I think you got their heads just right. The nostrils are central. Primary organs of sensation for these guys. They need to be big but not rediculous. I think you struck a good balance, and it fits my mind's eye too. Now, the ... teeth? Was there something that inspired this sort of undead zombie look? Donaldson describes them as having "slit mouths".

The secret of the limbs, I think, is not "short limbs", but "short limbs of equal length". This is not something that is apparent with a tape measure - this is something that stands out on first appearance! If you imagine them from the opposite direction - as four-legged creatures which can stand upright - you can get a pretty good angle on it, I think. If you examine a picture of a meercat standing up, or even a regular cat, you can see the proportions of the limbs to the body length (if not the articulation) which I imagine is about right for these guys. Long torsos. Low shoulders. Short, bandy legs.

Nice urvile picture, Wayf. That one is really cute.

Cute on the outside. Servants of Foul on the inside.

Do you truly believe they still serve Foul, WF?

Cats? Indubitably. Ur-viles? Nah.

In the Gradual Interview, Stephen R Donaldson wrote:It seems fairly obvious the the ur-viles had reinterpreted their Weird and decided to turn against Lord Foul. Why did they do so? Ah, therein lies a tale, without which "The Last Chronicles" might not be posssible.

(11/12/2004)

If the whole thing hinges on the ur-viles turning away from Foul, then it must be so, neh?

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:Millenia of being used, abused, then discarded and forgotten would cause me to rethink my Weird, too.

It would be weird if they didn't. *runs off laughing at how funny that was*

It may also be curious why they didn't do that earlier - perhaps they're somewhat masochistic? An interesting thought.

And, Wf, that cat is a really good depiction of an ur-vile) Perhaps you could use some black paint and a bit of editing on it...

And for both of you, dear pun-cakes.

Here's Örxx version II, wondering why everything whited out.



Any better? Face and torso slightly longer, shoulders pressed down, limbs a bit shorter. Zombie teeth hidden behind a slit-mouth. I suck at drawing animals, and couldn't get a well standing balance on this with (meer)catty legs without making it look like as if it were toppling over after too much vitrim. I think I also read somewhere that for bipedal movement a creature needs a certain minimum leg-torso ratio, otherwise they can't support their weight. There may be space to reduce their length a morsel still.

Thanks very much for the tips!

I am very much more pleased with version 2. But then again, you took most of my suggestions to heart.

I give it: 3 thumbs up. (yes: I borrowed another thumb: don't ask.)

Final thoughts. And I recognize as I say this that I have made a similar comment earlier, when discussing your skurj. Anyway, this is bonus extra-credit stuff.

How would you make the ur-viles head so that it doesn't look like there's a place where eyes should be? I think that this creature would look more alien and unnatural if it looked like it was never intended to have eyes, rather than as an eyeless but essentially humanoid head, with blank spaces where eyes usually are.

The only thing I can think of is to move the brain down behind the nose, rather than keeping it behind where the eyes would be. Which makes sense: the nose is the primary sensory organ, and so would be closest to the brain (as is our eyes). This would make the whole head shorter.

Something like this (before and after):

Way, are you sure you don't want to do something for the Gallery, not only the Bad Illustrating? Your modification is much closer to what I imagined. I thought, however, that those heads had to fit at least not less, and likely more brains than humans tend to have, so I imagined them elongated backwards.

Frostheart, I also think they won't likely wear something torn and inaccurate, though in their circumstances it could be hard to help that.

Effaeldm wrote:Way, are you sure you don't want to do something for the Gallery, not only the Bad Illustrating? Your modification is much closer to what I imagined. I thought, however, that those heads had to fit at least not less, and likely more brains than humans tend to have, so I imagined them elongated backwards.

I tried to add to the back; I did not succeed very well. And Frostheart deserves the credit here; I just did a little work with Paint at the end. I dare say she could be quite pissed at my legerdemaine. I pray not.

For those who may not have noticed, the First and Second Chronicles Art Gallery has been renamed to include all of the chrons fan made artwork. I had requested a seperate sub-forum for art work here in the Last Chrons forum to attempt to avoid spoilers, but the decision was made to open up the Gallery to artwork from all the chrons instead.

I'll admit I don't read every thread in the chrons forums, and believe I miss some of the Last Chrons work posted because of that, so could any future art be posted in The Chronicles Art Gallery, please?