Kevin's Watch

So, in general, but also recently in the Acropolis threads, I've heard some comments about the lack of in-character public chatter in the Pantheon-style games. And how that somehow lessens the experience.

Since its an issue that touches on all the games, and not exclusively Acropolis, I thought I'd kick off a thread up here in GT Talk so we can all of us, players and GMs (and often, GMs here are players there), put our heads together to see if anything can be done about it. Or even if anything should be done about it.

I joined the genre late, and the Numen did get a few choice trash-talks into P3. In Aesir, I was on a continent with only Jove, and we'd PM or text between us. In both games, I did try to write stories that talked about what I was doing, but I never really got beyond the stages of establishing myself, so I never really got to where I had a reason to publicly proclaim anything.

In Vanir, my character was build around the idea of a secret society, so of course I never posted IC. Honestly, that was kind of rough. I ended up doing a lot of OOC trash-talk just because I had no way of doing it IC. Maybe not the best character choice.

In Acro 1.0, Fist and I, and later others, formed a coalition and did some amount of public stuff. With the Barbarian Horde, we had a common enemy and we each had different info to share. But, quite a lot of that was still done through backchannel means. I think mostly that was just because we both were bored and could text all through the day. But, life happened for [Syl], so that ended.

At the risk of accidentally sharing too much behind-the-scenes stuff, in Inferno, it seems like so far people have mostly been just defining themselves as characters. But Hell has been carved up into domains, and I think we soon will be coming to the point that more interaction happens just because there are no more housekeeping tasks to handle.

I'd say that Acro 2.0 is still young enough that we're all still carving out our spaces. I've gotten some hints in my results there that I'd like to get public about, mostly stuff about external threats, etc.

So, talk to me about P1 - P3, and why the chatter was so much more for them, and whether there are any fundamental differences between those games and the current batch. Maybe we can take some lessons and apply them now. Either as players, or as GMs.

Personally, I've never been a big chatterer in the games, seldomly taking the initiative to start a conversation or sometimes even comment unless I have a direct stake in what's being discussed. I've actually been under the impression that talk is still going on, just in private channels that I am not party to.

Of course, I think a lot of it has to do with Creator. As big of a cheeseball as he is (I say that fondly), he always kept conversations going. Him and Fist. Since I haven't seen him play anything other than Pantheon...

I've always been wanting more chatter. One problem is that there's always been at least one evil character. Anything revealed in chatter would be used against us. And no point in posting packs of lies.

Because it's on a human level, Prophets gives the best opportunity for game posts, and I've taken great advantage of that. An evil character, if there was one, couldn't use power from afar, and all that. They could kill me, but that's not as easy, and more easily traced. I'm more free to talk, and tell what my plans are.

Fist and Faith wrote:I've always been wanting more chatter. One problem is that there's always been at least one evil character. Anything revealed in chatter would be used against us. And no point in posting packs of lies.

God, what's the fun if you don't dissemble. I never lie in character, but you know damn well I don't play straight with the truth.

The bigger problem is that the interesting chatter is provoked by antagonistic characters, but the antagonistic ones are discouraged to talk because allowing any hint that you are antagonistic causes everyone else to start plotting against you - even if the antagonism is entirely theoretical at that point. (Yes goddammit I'm still resentful about the ganging up on Bel. You didn't even let me start being bad! (and by "you" I don't mean you specifically, Fist. Not sure you were directly involved. (I'm also writing this tongue-in-cheek, of course.)))

As I said in the Acropolis discussion thread where this was brought up, I feel I am truly terrible at in-character chatter. However, I did enjoy writing Leaf, Limb, and Log for Vanir. Not really sure if that counts or not, though.

Murrin wrote:

Fist and Faith wrote:I've always been wanting more chatter. One problem is that there's always been at least one evil character. Anything revealed in chatter would be used against us. And no point in posting packs of lies.

God, what's the fun if you don't dissemble. I never lie in character, but you know damn well I don't play straight with the truth.

I don't mind dissembling, or lying. I may have lied the biggest lie of all, eh? I even had to play the part as Fist. The nasties might've seen Zephyr's suicidal posting as the ruse it was if I was all happy and stuff. How could player and character not act as one at a time like that? Caam didn't know what to do, and Xar was so worried that he called me on the phone from Germany. Heh. But I explained to him what I was up to.

But that was extreme circumstances, brought on by an extreme event in the game. (Still the most extraordinary event in any of these games, imo.) I'm talking about the games on a regular basis. I'm sure we all accomplished good stuff, making some great things we had dreamed up. But I wish it was possible to do the kind of world building I always wanted to do, and do it openly, celebrating each others' accomplishments, brainstorming and helping each other...

Fist and Faith wrote:But I wish it was possible to do the kind of world building I always wanted to do, and do it openly, celebrating each others' accomplishments, brainstorming and helping each other...

Well, I'm holding out hope for Prophets in this regard. So far, Laurel's goals have been out in the open pretty much, and she already built up Azver at his party and with the children she teaches. She's still trying to promote and get popularity reputation for the instrument she and Brand created. She is working with Krinn to prepare Twinsriver for the tournament in the best light possible. She's had no contact with Gener, but truly knows nothing about him at this point to try and work with him.

But so far, it is my hope things continue to go well...

I think my energy has just diminished over the years.

--A

This discussion (particularly thoughts it triggered about aggressive players vs. those who prefer a sandbox game of building up things) has given me an idea for a game - one that's explicitly competitive, a contest with a definite end goal. I'm not sure I have the commitment or attention span to actually run a game, though. Nor am I sure there are enough players who are interested in playing in direct opposition to each other.

Edit: Okay, this idea is really running away with me. I've already written a lengthy introduction setting up the mythology of the game world.

Avatar wrote:I think my energy has just diminished over the years.

Poor old man. Just wait another twenty years!

Murrin wrote:This discussion (particularly thoughts it triggered about aggressive players vs. those who prefer a sandbox game of building up things) has given me an idea for a game - one that's explicitly competitive, a contest with a definite end goal. I'm not sure I have the commitment or attention span to actually run a game, though. Nor am I sure there are enough players who are interested in playing in direct opposition to each other.

Can't imagine why you're not playing Inferno. I guess Demon Princes of Hell could be nice and work together, but I wouldn't expect it. I'm not part of anything resembling an alliance with anyone, and I haven't seen any hint that anyone else is either.

Guess I had kind of forgotten about Inferno. I'm not sure what exactly it was that put me off from signing up when it started, I guess I just couldn't quite figure how I'd play it (similar to Acropolis 2, wasn't sure how I'd approach it).

Anyway, I'm becoming seriously interested in trying this idea out. The goal of the game would not be simply to defeat the other players, so it wouldn't totally discourage working together. The goal is external to the players, but every player should want to be the one that reaches it.

It's called Heart of God.

I'm in, Murrin!

Me, I love the in game chatter. If you don't have that, all you're doing is one move after another and in my experience, the only contact you have is with the GM. Very few other players have contact with me. I've even asked Fist to collaborate a couple of times and even he has denied me. (hmmmm, maybe it's me, heh)

Anyhow, I see the wisdom of having the courts in P3 because it forced the issue.

Murrin wrote:This discussion (particularly thoughts it triggered about aggressive players vs. those who prefer a sandbox game of building up things) has given me an idea for a game - one that's explicitly competitive, a contest with a definite end goal. I'm not sure I have the commitment or attention span to actually run a game, though. Nor am I sure there are enough players who are interested in playing in direct opposition to each other.

Edit: Okay, this idea is really running away with me. I've already written a lengthy introduction setting up the mythology of the game world.

I'll read the description when you put it up, Murrin, but I expect this is the type of game I'll specifically avoid. I really do dislike conflict.

I'll enjoy lurking though.