Kevin's Watch

Something that has bothered me for a while now, and want to address for good. (No, and I'm not any kind of f*** moron for pointing this out, please leave the random outbursts of swearwords and insults in the Tank, if one really must resort to such speech. )

You may or may not have noticed, but--on the scale of the board in general--something of a mass exodus of artists and dissectors has occurred during the past year or so. Well, at least those who miss marineguy, hue of bone, Blackhawk, etc. may have. As an active contributor, and equally unhappy with the sluggishness or near death-throes of the more creative forums, namely dissections, the gallery, and the hall of gifts, I can easily perceive the lack of response as the major reason to this. We don't exactly post new threads for the sheer fun of having them merely gather dust, particularly as there may be tens of hours of work from collecting reference materials from the library to 3D-rendering behind a single piece. If a person has problems understanding the issue here, then one might try to review it from a different angle: think about typing a very long, analytical thread with questions and speculations and a serious invitation to discuss the matters within, and gain virtually no response during the following weeks and months. Now, have this occur again and again, and you can grasp the level of frustration. The medium may be different, but for one thing, there's no magical button in Photoshop that produces full-colored images within seconds.

If you'd like to keep the remaining contributors here, prevent the slow dying-out of the forum--the issue of which has cropped up a few times lately--and encourage some future newbies to add their own works to the heap, then please consider not to skip over such posts. I know for a fact that a lot of lurking happens, and yet silence prevails. It should not be very difficult to write a line or two for a response, particularly compared to the volume of traffic some other areas like the Tank here receive. Contributors aren't after mindless praise, they're after discussion, just like regular thread-starters.

Thank you.

(Not that I'm expecting much of a response to this either--but perhaps someone reads and takes a second to consider the import.)

I'm not blatantly disagreeing with you, Frostheart, but while I haven't kept track of marineguy, I do know via PMs that both blackhawk and hue still frequent the Watch. While I don't know why hue may not have been posting artwork lately, I can say reasons outside of the Watch has affected blackhawk's current urge to create. He is hoping to get back to creating soon.

However, I will say I do miss the creativity of all Watchers in general.

I agree with the sentiment that you should express something for those posts that you feel are important to the site. Lack of response is discouraging. So don't just sit back and assume someone else will make a comment.

But from the other side, you have to know that responselessness happens. If you're doing something for the applause, you're doomed to disappointment. If you do it because it's worth doing for itself, then you won't be. So much.

I have been struggling to finish my Thomas and Linden by years end. Probably no one will care. I am doing it for me, though. And I will post it so that it has a place to live where people can find it if they want it. The world is a better place with some Donaldson analysis in it.

Ok, since you asked....
I don't find the artwork posted interesting enough to respond.
3D rendering just doesn't thrill me.
I've tried Poser and a few other programs over the years and they're insanely difficult for me so I appreciate the time and effort put in.
The hand drawn stuff I've seen so far is also not my thing.

Plus, you're giving your own interpretation of what things and people look like.
Seldom is that going to match people's imaginations so I bet that's another reason people don't comment.
It's not what they imagine.
Telling you that is a negative and I think most people try to avoid that.

Sorry.

i writes lots of stuffs...

I have to admit I'm not always commenting as much as I better did - usually I start thinking on what to write and get stuck or just can't comment immediately and then it gets out of my attention. I'll try to be better at that.

Menolly, leaving because of that or not, the artists mostly appreciate feedback and/or praise)

way, very right) I think what is done is important on its own - and, well, there are lurkers who enjoy quietly) The visit count can be some indicator) Waiting eagerly for your Thomas and Linden

HLT, like Frosty already said, not necessarily words of admiration. Being just mentioned can be pleasant, and feedback can be useful, sometimes to improve. Saying something like "It's not how I imagined, but well done" appears quite fine to me. If Frosty still appreciates my comments after what I said and repeated on her image of Lord Foul with breasts almost like Pamela Anderson's, what you suggest sounds even overly polite and positive

Sarge, I'll try to comment on more of it.

Well, I l love art in any form. Whether it matches my preconceptions is not only beside the point, it's what makes it exciting! :waves of appreciation:

I'm def a chronic lurker...just look at my post/join date ratio haha. I've been making it a priority to not be such a hermit anymore, at least in RL. Time to do the same here...

I'm speaking here for the whole lot of artists/writers/pick-your-underappreciated-medium, since it also saddens me to see other people's works merely collecting layers of lichen and the general, indifferent "meh" -atmosphere slowly killing inspiration. Besides, it's extremely annoying to end up clamoring for attention for months on end to get even a single question in your thread answered, particularly if that kind of behavior doesn't really belong to your culture.

In case it wasn't clear, self-quoting:

Frostheart wrote:Contributors aren't after mindless praise, they're after discussion, just like regular thread-starters.

I could capsize the situation here if it's still not comprehensible: imagine an American artist trying to post on a Finnish fanboard, where the members mostly end up debating the upcoming local elections and Perussuomalaiset versus Kokoomus. With the existing, yawning cultural gap and relatively few people responding only on occasion, one winds up feeling rather disoriented and stupid.

High Lord Tolkien wrote: I don't find the artwork posted interesting enough to respond.
--
Plus, you're giving your own interpretation of what things and people look like.
Seldom is that going to match people's imaginations so I bet that's another reason people don't comment.
It's not what they imagine.
Telling you that is a negative and I think most people try to avoid that.

Sorry, but I still don't really fathom the problem here, particularly as the contributors often pose a fistful of questions about improvement or other points-of-view alongside the main work. So, the pile of pixels on the screen might not correspond to someone's existing impression, yet what's there to hinder from pointing this out and offering some suggestions? If the art's boring, then a straightforward comment might inspire towards something utterly novel with a different style (has occurred to me more than once). If people can discuss diverse political theories or plot predictions at length, why not someone's visual 'theory'? Or someone's essay? Or anything else?

What's one to do with an extroverted creative function, if people don't talk back? Drawing and writing are fairly lonely crafts to begin with, unlike shared workshops.

Negative is an core part of concrit or just about any editing. The essence of art and writing lies in building upon and around the draft. There's a huge difference between 'good negative' and 'bad negative' (or 'neutral negative' in the sense of not offering any insight but not agreeing either), however; a person doesn't need to explode all over the place in order to disagree.


Like I said, if people cease talking back to someone who has majorly joined for the sake of creativity or contributing, they don't feel welcome. I'm glad to hear hue and BH still visit, and perfectly understand that RL comes first, but it still makes me wonder about the departure of the rest and the general graveyard sensation of the Gallery.

Contributors don't even post more complex pieces altogether that often. A new thread may sprout up every 1-2 months. Shouldn't be too laborous to leave a line or two on something akin to that, if only for the sake of common courtesy.

Therewith, a huge thank-you to those few who yet remain active.


Foul is experimenting with Illearth implants. He desires to feel the softness of his hidden feminine side that clandestinely adores gentle pastel hues and lacy, frilly wossnames.

i has begun a new poetry collective thread entitled Bramblings.

wayfriend wrote:Well, I l love art in any form. Whether it matches my preconceptions is not only beside the point, it's what makes it exciting! :waves of appreciation:

Thanks) Those waves feel warm

balon! wrote:I'm def a chronic lurker...just look at my post/join date ratio haha. I've been making it a priority to not be such a hermit anymore, at least in RL. Time to do the same here...

Hooray! Unlurker)

Frostheart wrote:...
Foul is experimenting with Illearth implants. He desires to feel the softness of his hidden feminine side that clandestinely adores gentle pastel hues and lacy, frilly wossnames.

You're so asking for something more than snide remarks Actually, I already have an idea

sgt.null wrote:i has begun a new poetry collective thread entitled Bramblings.

Seen the new thread in the Hall, I'll have a look) By the way, it could be very lovely of you to comment on other people's artworks - after all, you far don't have to be a non-artist to comment on the others) And they may appreciate and comment more in return.

I appreciate the efforts and contributions of all the creative people on the Watch. It adds an extra, rich dimension to the forum and brings an extra level of diversity and energy that helps sustain us all (as the 'Tank does in its own, at times, blood-curdling way ).

On a personal note, as I have said before, I do not look at Chrons-related artwork or fanfic. This is a purely subjective position that has nothing to do with the quality of those contributions (which I assume are excellent from reading other people's comments on them outside of the threads themselves). I don't engage with images or fiction related to the Land because I want to sustain the uniqueness of my own imagination as much as possible. The LOTR films are a good example, for me, of how my imagination can be subsumed into another's (though in this case much of it based on visuals I'd previously been exposed to.)

So, Contributors, please don't take any silence on my part as indifference. You have my constant appreciation for the extra vitality that you add to the Watch with every creative contribution you make.

Hail.

u.

Nicely put, u.

I'm in the same boat. We've had the fanfiction discussion before: in general, I don't read it (even though my daughter Batty writes a boatload of it, for several fandoms). It just doesn't do much for me. Sure, I've read stories that I wish would go on, but I want the *author* to take it farther, not somebody else.

As far as art goes, I don't know enough about the technical aspects to say anything about a particular piece other than, "That's really cool." (You should have heard Magickmaker berating me about my photography skills -- "Haven't you ever heard of the rule of thirds, Mom? Honestly!" ) Clearly this is my own failing -- but I'm gotten comfortable with it, having suffered with it for over half a century now.

I came to the Watch originally to meet other people who appreciated SRD's work. What I found here was a community. Like any other community, each member has strengths and weaknesses, and each makes his or her own unique contribution. That's what makes it fun.

My take, and you can take it for what it's worth.

I really don't care about art. I like visiting the occasional art museum, but I usually want to split after about an hour (usually after seeing the surrealist offerings and one or two big name displays). You couldn't drag me to a gallery (my wife could, but that's just how it goes). I used to work for an art and lit mag ( www.thecoraddi.com ). When I didn't actively scorn the art side, I was usually just apathetic.

Or take books. If dust jackets disappeared from the earth, I'd barely notice. I only ever look to see what scene was supposedly depicted. I don't even pay attention to the maps (except in GT games), if they have them.

So basically, art on the Watch just doesn't do it for me, especially of the fan-fic-ish variety (Syl loathes fan-fic). Nothing personal.

And as one of the old-timers (fossils) around here, I'm often reminded of the Death Wish episode of Star Trek Voyager (A Q wants to end his life). "I traveled the road many times, sat on the porch, played the games, been the dog, everything. I was even the scarecrow for a while." You're new, and while you possibly joined at one of the low-points for this kind of activity (or maybe experiencing the heat death of Kevin's Watch, if you want to be pessimistic, though similar has been said years before), it's cyclical. New names and topics come and go, some stick around, become mods, find their niches, drop out, come back, etc. It's just the way of things.

People will look at what they look at, will comment or not as they're inclined, and no one's obligated to validate the posting of others. /shrug

I write blog posts and book reviews that pretty much no one reads, because it interests me, and after years of it I no longer particularly care if they get noticed. All I can do is keep on putting stuff out there, and if people notice and respond, great, if they don't, oh well.

The only forum you mention that I spend any time looking at is Dissections and that only when my interest in reading the material is high. The others, I don't really pay any time on partly because, first, I'm not interested in doing so and second because I don't feel qualified to give any real constructive criticism. I'm not going to flatter anyone there just to do so.

Well, thanks for answering anyway. Appreciated.

(Not that I was expecting anything to change much.)

As I can't even draw a stick man, I'm a bit chary about commenting on any art. I do know when I like a picture, though, and I think I have said in the past when I have liked something (SWMNBN springs to mind).

Also, I agree with u (the one with the avatar with the varied feet on ). In my imagination the Haruchai have always been sort of small and squat. I like to think of them that way. Ur-viles in my mind don't have pointy ears. But far be it from me to say that to someone who has taken so much trouble to do those beautiful drawings.

I have read some of the dissections but not all. They take a great deal of time to read and are hard on my eyes. However, I have said I will do chapter 2 of Forbidden Knowledge (I think), when I get time to sit down with it.

Oh yeah, dissections. It drives me crazy to read a book as slowly as a read-along requires. I get into the story and end up finishing the book.

Reminds me too much of when I was in grade school and the teacher would have us take turns reading aloud. I'd read way ahead, and then was constantly in fear that the teacher would call on me and I wouldn't know where the last kid had stopped.

aliantha wrote:I'd read way ahead, and then was constantly in fear that the teacher would call on me and I wouldn't know where the last kid had stopped.

I got D's in Reading for precisely that reason.