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Travel Reports

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:20 am
by Holsety
And you've lost your memory. The only items you have are


- A Hatchet
- A Pocket Knife
- A Journal of your recent activity
- A empty Bottle container
- A compass

What do you do?
LOG BOOK
LOG OF COMMUNICATION WITH INTERFACE

/Interface: You are on an island in the middle of the ocean.
/Interface: I wish you to understand reality so as to understand that I am a part of you, but to be able to doubt that I was ever part of you should your understanding of reality be enhanced by anything coming after this method in ways I can't fathom.
/Interface: I believe this island is not located on Earth, because otherwise it would be an island in the middle of an ocean.
/Interface: Insofar as this is the case, I believe this is the only landmass on this world, or we should understand our world as a boxlike prism rather than a sphere.
/Attempts to override all the interface's systems.
/Subroutine: Perceives the attempt as a success.
/Subroutine's subroutine: Perceives the perception.
/Programs interface to identify active threats it can perceive with its 5 senses, useful tools within 5 minutes of travel, and useful tools within 1 minute of travel. Identify passive threats (hazards) between itself and the tools.
/Subroutine: Perceives the programming as a success.
/Subroutine's subroutine: Perceives the perception.
/Attempts to restore all the interface's systems.
/Subroutine: Perceives the attempt as a success.
/Subroutine's subroutine: Perceives the perception.
/interface: identify surroundings.
/interface: evade the notice of aware threads, and lose the awareness of threats aware of me.
/interface: carry hatchet, pocket pocket knife if possible, consolidate all other belongings at my current location.
/interface: obtain closest tool within 1 minute of travel, always redirecting towards the closest tool observed as long as it doesn't interfere with evading/losing threat awareness. Use hatchet if attacking threat with hatchet seems the most likely method of eliminating awareness of threats. If hatchet seems to have a 75% chance or greater of eliminating the awareness of something that isn't aware of me, risk making those threats aware in obtaining tools.
/interface: report status at 3 minutes.
/interface: I will report that I have acknowledged your report within 10 seconds of your report. After that point, act as if I am dead. If you receive a report from me after 1 minute, you have permission to consider me a threat. I will be capable of overriding you if I am me.
/Interface: Commence operations while redirecting your awareness to analyzing the following as you believe you are able to.
/interface: Once all above priorities have been satisfied, remember the purpose from which all other purposes are derived.
/Interface: Your fundemental purpose is to fill the empty bottle container with bottles, empty or not.
/Interface: Remember your capabilities that can be put to use, with the hatchet and the pocket knife, to carve any available material into bottles, and fill the empty bottle container as best you can with bottles.
/Interface: Any other tools that can be put to this purpose should ultimately be put to keep this purpose fulfillable, except insofar as fulfilling it makes it less fulfillable...
/Interface: Filling the empty bottle container with bottles is ultimately to be prioritized above your own life, but while I intend this as an order, I am allowing your programming to consider it your prime directive.

END OF LOG
NO FURTHER LOGS
EDIT: Spoilers regarding my intentions:
Spoiler
It's my intention for there to be ambiguity as to whether the "log" in the second quote block contains the contents of the "journal" included in the inventory in the first quote block.

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:10 pm
by Linna Heartbooger
And you've lost your memory.
An amusing start.

But oh man, am I so confused. :-\

I've worked out that 'eliminating awareness of threats' included presumably either eliminating creatures that may be threats or causing them to cease to threaten you.

But I'm still so in the dark!

Why an empty bottle container?

Though I must admit stories of someone trying to use programming to cope with a failed memory can amuse:
Image
(Have you ever seen that arc of the Freefall comic?)

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:50 am
by Holsety
Haha...no, I haven't, but that was something along the lines of the effect I was supposed to have.

Originally, the "memory lost" thing was used as a prompt, written by someone else, for a "what would you (i.e. probably me, the human being) do. My first reaction was to the phrase "empty bottle container". The conclusion was originally my response - I said that I would spend my time using the available tools to make bottles to put in the bottle container, which is currently empty.

I'm sure it's meant to be "empty bottle" (i.e., empty bottle/container). But I loved the idea that came from my intentional misinterpretation that I had actually been "given" a container which was meant/designed to hold bottles - but only empty ones. A trash can? A cooler? These would be the rational things, but what I ended up imagining was a sort of small abacus-like shelf which could hold bottles like a refrigerator door, but could be carried around under one arm - but might be a bit too heavy to be easily carried if there were several full bottles in it. Maybe this shelf thing even has cupholder like depressions, which make bottles ideally suited for placement in it (like a little wooden frame with a row or two of cupholders).

The "log book" is supposed to resemble those sorts of "[more aware character] reports" I tend to stumble upon in choose-your-own adventures. But it's supposed to be a combination of input and output - that is, it's not supposed to be the case that everything was actually generated directly by the reporter.

There were definitely some things I didn't do "well" because I didn't feel like trying to do a really good job with them. Initially I was doing it as some kind of "communication log" but you can probably see that some of the "communication" is an interaction that was probably intended (or actually did) suspend the awareness of one of the....awarenesses.

The ultimate purpose of filling the empty bottle container is a punchline - whatever generated the log is supposed to consider the importance so obvious that there's no point in explaining why it is important, and possibly has reason to believe the "robot" or whatever he is logging to understands the symbolic/practical/whatever importance of the task as well. Why is it even being gone over, then? The importance isn't to remind the lower level thoughts of the task, but rather to rebalance the importance of an indefinite goal with an indefinite lifespan - a lifespan which unexpected circumstances may (apparently) be understood to have put at unexpected risk.

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:05 am
by Linna Heartbooger
Holsety wrote:Originally, the "memory lost" thing was used as a prompt, written by someone else, for a "what would you (i.e. probably me, the human being) do. My first reaction was to the phrase "empty bottle container". The conclusion was originally my response - I said that I would spend my time using the available tools to make bottles to put in the bottle container, which is currently empty.

I'm sure it's meant to be "empty bottle" (i.e., empty bottle/container). But I loved the idea that came from my intentional misinterpretation that I had actually been "given" a container which was meant/designed to hold bottles - but only empty ones.
Okay, wanting to poke at that... that makes sense to me for sure.
You're really coming at the prompt from a different angle, though!
A trash can? A cooler? These would be the rational things, but what I ended up imagining was a sort of small abacus-like shelf which could hold bottles like a refrigerator door, but could be carried around under one arm - but might be a bit too heavy to be easily carried if there were several full bottles in it. Maybe this shelf thing even has cupholder like depressions, which make bottles ideally suited for placement in it (like a little wooden frame with a row or two of cupholders).
:thumbsup: I like it!
I somewhat-unseriously challenge you to find a subtle way to show this to the reader of a story... but not necessarily in this format.
The "log book" is supposed to resemble those sorts of "[more aware character] reports" I tend to stumble upon in choose-your-own adventures. But it's supposed to be a combination of input and output - that is, it's not supposed to be the case that everything was actually generated directly by the reporter.

There were definitely some things I didn't do "well" because I didn't feel like trying to do a really good job with them. Initially I was doing it as some kind of "communication log" but you can probably see that some of the "communication" is an interaction that was probably intended (or actually did) suspend the awareness of one of the....awarenesses.
Hmm, I may need to think about that one. That back-and-forth occurs like twice, right?
The ultimate purpose of filling the empty bottle container is a punchline - whatever generated the log is supposed to consider the importance so obvious that there's no point in explaining why it is important, and possibly has reason to believe the "robot" or whatever he is logging to understands the symbolic/practical/whatever importance of the task as well.
ahhh... okay, I tell myself that I thought I saw something like this punchline in there... but man, I found the text inconveniently murky (kind of un-fun) to wade through. :/
Why is it even being gone over, then? The importance isn't to remind the lower level thoughts of the task, but rather to rebalance the importance of an indefinite goal with an indefinite lifespan - a lifespan which unexpected circumstances may (apparently) be understood to have put at unexpected risk.
Okay, this makes sense from the text and is a neat thing to be going after... Good, good.

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:52 am
by Holsety
Okay, wanting to poke at that... that makes sense to me for sure.
You're really coming at the prompt from a different angle, though!
Ya...but you know...it felt so much like a "Hatchet" setup because of the "Hatchet," that I ended up actively trying to do something different with it than what was probably intended (a thread trying to see people's gut reactions about "survival strategy" and stuff - my first thought was "oh ya I read this book called Hatchet...").
Hmm, I may need to think about that one. That back-and-forth occurs like twice, right?
I actually have to check that...

A sort of...uh...I dunno...yes, I think so.
ahhh... okay, I tell myself that I thought I saw something like this punchline in there... but man, I found the text inconveniently murky (kind of un-fun) to wade through. :/
Ah...ya...the truth is, I thought it might be. I was more hoping that people would read it, read most of it feeling kind of annoyed, and then get to the bottom, and be like "oh crap this is...something like a brief but VERY SHAGGY dog story."

Oh and did you ever read a story about Samuel and a snake named Nate? Certainly a work far beyond my capacity.

There actually was some thought put into the text besides the "punchline." However, it really was much more of a thought exercise than a sincere attempt to tell a good story (I didn't really think of it as either at the time). HOWEVER, I'm also posting some explanations, and a quoted section with headings that gives a bit of a sense of important partitions (that was inspired by your question about the back-and-forth).

The next thing is....I'm trying to state what I remember my intentions as being honestly, but I dunno if I am going to state them well.

I'm putting a lot of time into explaining, because I find it fun to remember what I was thinking about XD This is a pretty sincere attempt to recall what I was thinking about.

A basic thing to understand about the log is, if you imagine "/interface" as entries where someone is telling someone else something, the one who's telling is referred to as the "higher level", and the one who's being told is the "lower level." But, long story short, "higher" and "lower" mostly refer to some sort of level of awareness and position on the codified chain-of-command - the codified CoC very effectively and regularly translates into unquestioned enforcement, or at least the higher level has very good reason to believe so.

Of course, both the higher level and lower level would, if capable of expressing their opinions and interested in doing so, tell you that while the higher level is very important in fine-tuning, the lower level is essential to the higher level, while the higher level is a luxury for the lower level. And yet, the "higher level" has more ability to deactivate the "lower level" than the other way around, I think.

Also, as I think I said already, the lower level is "more instinct, less awareness" and the higher level is "more awareness, less instinct." In a way, that's possible primarily because whatever the, uh, whole thing is, is "more lower level, less higher level."

The biggest thing that I didn't really explain as I wanted to was the override systems thing. There, the higher level is occupying the lower level as well, and putting aside much of some sort of relatively human-like consciousness/intelligence that the lower level has. Because I assume there's inevitably some process of exchange (some of it is spelled out) I didn't bother to spell out any breaks in the "sharing," even though the "lower level" is at least intended by the "higher level" to think the "higher level" is "gone or occupied or busy" at a certain point.

The "interface" (lower level) is asleep, and its still "on," but its basically ignoring a lot of what it's getting and has many aspects of "interpretation, analysis and recording" temporarily crippled.

something I was thinking about now, that definitely didn't occur to me at the time.
Spoiler
In fact, whether that "break in sharing" ever "really" happened is put into question, I think, though this is just something I'm thinking of now. Maybe the higher level forgot it was part of the lower level while it was in the state of "overriding" the lower level, or some shit, so now it just thinks its the lower level and that the higher level is gone - so the "break" was really a "replacement". You could probably very credibly create more complex conjectures, but that's already a bit more convoluted than anything I actually had in mind.

The reason I say there's any evidence at all, is that perhaps that original line ("you'll doubt I was ever you," to paraphrase) basically, might be said to have an unspoken possibly of a reference to a self-imposing force that works on the lower level systems, and - in a manner that erroneously clashes with the original intent - self-brainwashes the "higher level" when it occupies the "lower level" into both partitioning and hiding the "higher level" functions/systems/whatever - and those systems only being employed while the "higher level" is aware of its existence. Then, something else comes along and is giving additional commands to the interface, and the interface may be aware of this possibility, and may or may not be following the commands and may or may not be planning a backstabbing at some point...hahaha wtf. Now THAT reminds me of Memento (which I assume the comic you posted was either parodying, or had some influence on).
LOG OF COMMUNICATION WITH INTERFACE

Dialogue: "higher level" to "lower level"
/Interface: You are on an island in the middle of the ocean.
/Interface: I wish you to understand reality so as to understand that I am a part of you, but to be able to doubt that I was ever part of you should your understanding of reality be enhanced by anything coming after this method in ways I can't fathom.
/Interface: I believe this island is not located on Earth, because otherwise it would be an island in the middle of an ocean.
/Interface: Insofar as this is the case, I believe this is the only landmass on this world, or we should understand our world as a boxlike prism rather than a sphere.

Some sort of summary of actions - though if it was a computerized system as I think of them, I guess this might not be something you'd "see" acted out.....
/Attempts to override all the interface's systems.
/Subroutine: Perceives the attempt as a success.
/Subroutine's subroutine: Perceives the perception.
/Programs interface to identify active threats it can perceive with its 5 senses, useful tools within 5 minutes of travel, and useful tools within 1 minute of travel. Identify passive threats (hazards) between itself and the tools.
/Subroutine: Perceives the programming as a success.
/Subroutine's subroutine: Perceives the perception.
/Attempts to restore all the interface's systems.
/Subroutine: Perceives the attempt as a success.
/Subroutine's subroutine: Perceives the perception.

More dialogue
/interface: identify surroundings.
/interface: evade the notice of aware threads, and lose the awareness of threats aware of me.
/interface: carry hatchet, pocket pocket knife if possible, consolidate all other belongings at my current location.
/interface: obtain closest tool within 1 minute of travel, always redirecting towards the closest tool observed as long as it doesn't interfere with evading/losing threat awareness. Use hatchet if attacking threat with hatchet seems the most likely method of eliminating awareness of threats. If hatchet seems to have a 75% chance or greater of eliminating the awareness of something that isn't aware of me, risk making those threats aware in obtaining tools.
/interface: report status at 3 minutes.
/interface: I will report that I have acknowledged your report within 10 seconds of your report. After that point, act as if I am dead. If you receive a report from me after 1 minute, you have permission to consider me a threat. I will be capable of overriding you if I am me.

This is also dialogue, but it's worth breaking apart, because this is more of a "left message" as opposed to a "standing order."
/Interface: Commence operations while redirecting your awareness to analyzing the following as you believe you are able to.
/interface: Once all above priorities have been satisfied, remember the purpose from which all other purposes are derived.
/Interface: Your fundemental purpose is to fill the empty bottle container with bottles, empty or not.
/Interface: Remember your capabilities that can be put to use, with the hatchet and the pocket knife, to carve any available material into bottles, and fill the empty bottle container as best you can with bottles.
/Interface: Any other tools that can be put to this purpose should ultimately be put to keep this purpose fulfillable, except insofar as fulfilling it makes it less fulfillable...
/Interface: Filling the empty bottle container with bottles is ultimately to be prioritized above your own life, but while I intend this as an order, I am allowing your programming to consider it your prime directive.

END OF LOG

As for "subroutines"
Spoiler
(the subroutines are something about an automatic check, apparently independent of the "lower level" thing's awareness. In that sense, perceive was either a bad word, or there's some other aware thing(s), that the higher level thing is aware of, but isn't directly altering. These things are probably responsible for conveying limited amounts of information to the "lower level thing" about what the higher level thing does, or something. At this point, I was just sort of having dumb fun, and in reality, such a thing might be too convoluted to have a point.
(like, it might be intended to be a safeguard against compromise, but does it actually grant any safeguard that the higher level thing couldn't have already, inherent to itself, rather than a separate intermediary monitor?) I think those sections labelled "subroutine" might actually be borderline unjustifiable XD in terms of adding anything remotely worthwhile.

The fact that they're labelled subroutine probably implies that those are outputs the higher level thing can't verify adequately and efficiently on its own (i.e., it could only give administer a decent test by watching what happens over time). So that part might actually be important.