Kevin's Watch

I'm gearing up for ROTK by watching the dvd's of the first two movies. Tonight I watched FOTR, and a couple of questions occurred to me when Bilbo was leaving the Shire....

Do you think Gandalf was prepared to take the Ring from Bilbo by force if he had been unable to let it go? He says something somewhere about the danger of rending the mind that way.....but would he have considered it more dangerous to force the Ring from Bilbo, thereby risking serious damage to him in the process, or to allow him to keep the Ring?

Also, if Bilbo had kept the Ring, and indeed left the Shire alone with it, do you think he ever would have made it to Rivendell? Or would he perhaps have left the Shire with every intention of heading for Rivendell, but somehow ended up in a cave deep under a mountain instead....

No, I don't think he would. Gandalf is too wise to do such a thing. he said himself it would not be his right to take the ring from Bilbo.

If Gandalf should have forced the ring from Bilbo, then the Ring wold have had the opportunity to use Gandalf, and it would have strengthend itself and it's master.
Gandalf knew that (at least in the books he does) him taking the Ring just wold make things worse. It would make the ringwraithts look like Mr Nice Guys.
It is the same deal as with Galadriel, really. Anyone with power who gets the Ring just adds to the strength of it's master...

And no, Bilbo wouldn't have made it past the Prancing pony...

I think he would have made it. Because it was 17 years between when Frodo first got the ring, and when he first set out from the Shire.

Yes.....but what might he have done if Bilbo had screamed at him to leave him alone, and run out the door with the Ring in his pocket? Could he have bourne to just let him go, when he obviously cares for him so much?

I don't think Gandalf would have taken the Ring by force anyway, I think it would be out of caracter for him to do so.
But I don't think he would have left Bilbo all alone either....
I imagine that he would have followed, or have someone follow, Bilbo to protect him and see to it that he got to Rivendell in one piece. Where the Ring and Bilbo would be safe for the time being.
He would certainly try to persuade Bilbo to give up the Ring again but I do think he's to smart to take it from Bilbo without his consent...

Exactly, while Bilbo was unwilling to give up the ring, Gandalf would not lower himself to petty stealing...

You have to give it up freely. If Gandalf would have taken the Ring from Bilbo it would have broken Bilbo's mind and it would have destroyed Gandalf. It took everything Bilbo had just to let it go, if it had forcebly taken from him, he would have gone mad.

And this was even before Gandalf knew it was The One Ring. He suspected but didn't know for sure. Bilbo's reactions to him about giving it up tipped Gandalf off.

The fact is, even if Bilbo wouldn't give it up, it would leave him eventually without Gandalf taking it by force. The ring was ready to find a new bearer, and if Bilbo wouldn't abandon the ring, the ring would abandon him as it did Gollum.

Right. And I think if Bilbo had left with the Ring, it would have abandoned him fairly quickly.

The reason the Ring never leaves Frodo is simple...Frodo is taking it home.

Makes you think perhaps the ring can read the intentions of the bearer, knowing when to hide itself, when to expose itself, who to stay with, who to leave....

It didn't make a very good descion to stay with Frodo though

*spoilers for ending*





But it succeeded its purpose with Frodo in the end, didn't it? It got control of him, and if we assume it can only tell what the bearer is doing, then it couldn't have known Gollum would do what he did - it had already abandoned Gollum and forgotten him.

Starz is showing nothing but the first two movies back to back to back, all weekend...well, weekens almost over, but they have since yesterday...i didnt watch em all, as that would have been overkill, even for ME...heh...but once i get all 3, i will watch them all at least ONCE back to back to back...

I agree that if Bilbo had run off two things would've happened.
One that Gandalf (because of his love for the "dear Hobbit") would've pursued Bilbo or at least had someone follow him... but all the while the ring would've affected Bilbo the same way it affected Smeagol. So there would've been TWO Gollums running around... think on THAT and be dismayed By the time Bilbo was reduced then the ring would've left him.

The other thing would've been that the Ring was ready to return to it's maker Sauron and would've probably found a way to be found by the 9.
Interesting thing about the ring is that it was in-of-itself an entity all of it's own.

The actors in the interviews (appendixes of TFOTR) mentioned that the ring itself was a character in the films.