Kevin's Watch

Early in the US' history, there was a debate over what to do w/the debt accumulated during Revolutionary War. The US had some, and each state had its own debt. Hamilton was the 1st US Secretary of the Treasury, and a strong federalist. He envisioned a policy known as assumption, the details are hazy to me, but something along the lines of the US would assume the states' debts. This was supported by some states w/large debts, and opposed by those w/little or none. One of the latter was Virginia.

So James Madison, Rep in Congress for VA, opposed the assumption policy. Though originally a strong federalist himself, authoring the Federalist Papers along w/Hamilton (and a bit from John Jay), and recognized as the reason the US Constitution came to be (tho VA itself was one of the last to ratify and was quite close to denying it), he moved towards less federalism over time, particularly as his devotion to Jefferson grew. He was a major influence in the Congress, and a major reason why Hamilton's policy was denied, multiple times.

However, the issue of where to put the nation's new capital arose, and NYC, Philly and somewhere near Potamac were 3 likely choices. Much wrangling ensued, and a deal struck - the capital on the Potomac (good news for MD and VA), for the assumption policy. Madison and Hamilton were the keys, Madison getting enough votes for assumption, Hamilton getting enough for captial (some northern states of course wanting the capital elsewhere).

But, Madison actually voted against the assumption policy, knowing it would pass anyway. And it passed b/c of his deal behind the scenes. Yet if we were to study his words, and even his actions, at the time, we would think he was against the assumption. Hindsight we know, he actually brought it to pass.

So, from the beginning of this country, we know we could not trust politicians But really, I found it very interesting, b/c behind the scenes, compromise was brokered, yet Madison (Hamilton was not elected, so keeping votes not as important to him) publicly portrayed a different face in order to keep his constituents happy w/his performance. In essence, lying to them for his own benefit.

Interesting irony... the whole "means versus ends" thing.

Another irony is ...he was working towards his own state's interest!

And negotiation has to be worth something...

Baffling stuff, I think.

No. I am not getting into another Hamilton debate. I am still using my turtle wax from the last time.

Cybr,

The term "Federalist" changed after the Constitution was ratified. Originally, it simply ment somone who supported ratification. Afterward it became the name of the party who supported increasing Federal power over State power. The "Democratic-Republicans" were those who supported State power over Federal power. Ironically, the DRs are the Ancestors of today's Democratic party.

Ah, state power. I sometimes think half your problems rise from that. The states are perhaps not as united as one would expect them to be.

--A

SS, I agree. I'm just confused, where did that come from? Didn't seem related to my post?

I find it more ironic that the DRs, or Republicans as they called themselves, were all for states' rights, unless a state interfered w/slavery. Like, it wouldn't enforce fugitive slave laws. Then, the federal power trumped the state. It's instructive to know, even from beginning, states' rights meant whatever benefited a given state.

Yes Av, agreed. Probably why, throughout the ages, people recognized large republics don't work.

I've always thought it was because your country is just so big. We have 1/6 of your population, and nobody can agree on anything.

Geophysically, the US is indeed an empire.

--A

Avatar wrote:Ah, state power. I sometimes think half your problems rise from that. The states are perhaps not as united as one would expect them to be.

--A

I wouldn't want all our individual States to be completely united. A little disunity amongst siblings is a good thing as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

You can't have it both ways. As it is, you're fighting each other as much as anybody else.

--A

Madison did the right thing to pay off the debt, so I can't hold it against him that he tried to protect his political career at the same time. As long as he did the right thing, that's what matters.