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Uh... why does Vain have eyes?
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:50 am
by ElektroDragon
So, let me ask the question that got me to register for this forum in the first place:
I'm just now reading TWL for the first time, and Vain... Vain has eyes?!
This is bothering me. The ur-viles and waynhim are both eyeless. So why in damnation does Vain get to have eyes when they don't? Was this intentional? Is it explained later? Did SRD just flub it up?
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:04 am
by shadowbinding shoe
As I remember, he's supposed to look like a human being and human beings have eyes. I'm guessing the Ur viles decided a human appearance would help him be accepted into the company. Whether he can actually see with them is up for debate.
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:33 am
by dlbpharmd
Vain represents the height of the lore of the ur-viles. He is everything they've longed to be for centuries - the perfect, created being. Thus, he has eyes.
Btw, welcome to the Watch!
Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:45 pm
by ElektroDragon
Works for me! Thanks to you both.
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:31 am
by Avatar
dlbpharmd wrote:Vain represents the height of the lore of the ur-viles. He is everything they've longed to be for centuries - the perfect, created being. Thus, he has eyes.
Agreed. He is their perfection.
--A
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:10 pm
by wayfriend
It's worth some thought understanding what is the 'perfection' the ur-viles sought. "He crowns all their generations of breeding." Was he meant to be "the perfect made being", or was he meant to be "the perfect answer to self-despite"? I think Vain has eyes, not because the ur-viles thought that a perfect being looks more like a human than an ur-vile, but because they are serving the 'natural' life of the Earth, and not themselves.
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:37 pm
by shadowbinding shoe
wayfriend wrote:It's worth some thought understanding what is the 'perfection' the ur-viles sought. "He crowns all their generations of breeding." Was he meant to be "the perfect made being", or was he meant to be "the perfect answer to self-despite"? I think Vain has eyes, not because the ur-viles thought that a perfect being looks more like a human than an ur-vile, but because they are serving the 'natural' life of the Earth, and not themselves.
I'm with Wayfriend about this. The fact
that the ur-viles still look like their old blind selves in the 3rd chrons
further support this. Humans aren't the only natural species in this world. To me the main purpose of his appearance was to help the company relate to them as one of them.
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:04 pm
by peter
Ok - yes, I agree with what has been said above re Vains being the summit of the Ur-viles quest for perfection both in terms of their theurgy and in his 'form' but all this is forgetting (and here I am constrained by ElectroDragon's not yet having read the 2nd and 3rd books of the 2nd Chrons) Vains final......shall I call it......destiny. This must have been part of his creators intentions and I am somewhat suprised that it would coincide so neatly with the above quest. Perhaps this point should be left until a later stage however in fairness to ElectroDragon.
Welcome to the Watch by the way ElectroDragon.