TLD Chap 3: Not Dead to Life and Use

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:43 am

If you haven't yet, click here for the early release chapter, this time it's chapter 3. Then, come back here for discussion!

Post by **Seareach** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:55 am

Bout time you caught up, Dlb!

Post by **Orlion** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:01 pm

A couple initial thoughts:
1) Nice of Donaldson to give us a chapter that continues from where the cliffhanger of AATE left off.
2) This chapter provides some thematic justification for the Masters to get slaughtered by the sandgorgons and skurj as they fight for Andelain. Once again, I am doubtful of their efficacy, but that will be how they redeem themselves.
3) Gee, I wonder if Covenant will succeed in his new quest. Not like there's a quote from a trailer that reveals the answer

In either case, it'll be exciting to read about!

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:42 pm

Seareach wrote:Bout time you caught up, Dlb!

Oh, shut up, evil one!

Post by **SkurjMaster** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:20 pm

Truly engrossing!!! Just like the SRD I remember. This chapter makes me feel that this last book will tie it all together in an enthralling page turner.

One last thought. TC's forehead is now wounded in the same place as it was previously. I hope I don't hear ravens croaking "Bob Newhart."

The only consolation in that would be that SRD would probably do it in a very creative and philosophically satisfying manner.

Post by **Frostheart Grueburn** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:52 pm

Well, thought about dissecting it, but I surmise it shall be gnawed to the last droplet of marrow here before I even manage to start...

Perhaps someone better versed in christian theology can enlighten a poor heathen barbarian on the further meaning and purpose of simony?

Post by **Orlion** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:59 pm

Frostheart wrote: Perhaps someone better versed in christian theology can enlighten a poor heathen barbarian on the further meaning and purpose of simony?

Essentially, it is the sale of religious rank. So, for example, If I go up and say to the Catholic Church, "I'll give you 10 million dollars if you make me a cardinal", I am committing simony. It is named after a Simon (later called Magus, I believe) that offered money to Peter in order to gain the power to perform miracles as the apostles were doing.

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:03 pm

Frostheart wrote:Perhaps someone better versed in christian theology can enlighten a poor heathen barbarian on the further meaning and purpose of simony?

Ah, yes. That. Well...if you are poor and you need your sins forgiven by a priest--in Catholic theology the priest intercedes with the saints on your behalf and they intercede with God, or something like that--then you perform penance; this usually takes the form of "say x Hail Marys" or "say k Our Fathers" or do some service, etc. If you are wealthy then the forgiveness of sins will cost you only $995 but we are running a special this week so you need to pay only $850 and you'll be covered.
It gets even better, though. If you are poor and married but it wasn't working out then you either suffered in it until one of you died or you went your separate ways. If you are rich and married then you can buy your way out. Also, if you are poor and Grandma is in Purgatory then you'd better live a godly life or she won't make it into Heaven. If you are rich then you can simply buy Grandma's ticket to Heaven for the low price of $1,000.

In short, simony is charging money to administer religious services or to receive spiritual privileges of some sort. Typically, of course, this gets abused--"your sins won't be forgiven until you cough up $250". *tsk* *tsk* *tsk*

edit: also what Orlion said. I typed too slowly, it seems.

Post by **Dagonet** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:08 pm

Okay, so that's (an utterly amazing) Chapter 3. Why Chapter 3, though? What's going on in Chapters 1 and 2 that we aren't supposed to see yet?

I've thought for awhile that the beginning of TLD will have a flashback in which the Creator visits Jeremiah, probably to make sure he has the race car in hand when Roger arrives.

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:26 pm

Dagonet wrote:Okay, so that's (an utterly amazing) Chapter 3. Why Chapter 3, though? What's going on in Chapters 1 and 2 that we aren't supposed to see yet?

I've thought for awhile that the beginning of TLD will have a flashback in which the Creator visits Jeremiah, probably to make sure he has the race car in hand when Roger arrives.

I bet chaps. 1&2 will pick up with Linden and Jeremiah, and now that Jeremiah is of a right mind, he'll have lots of stuff to say that SRD doesn't want to reveal yet.

Post by **Akasri** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:37 pm

dlbpharmd wrote:
Dagonet wrote:Okay, so that's (an utterly amazing) Chapter 3. Why Chapter 3, though? What's going on in Chapters 1 and 2 that we aren't supposed to see yet?

I've thought for awhile that the beginning of TLD will have a flashback in which the Creator visits Jeremiah, probably to make sure he has the race car in hand when Roger arrives.
I bet chaps. 1&2 will pick up with Linden and Jeremiah, and now that Jeremiah is of a right mind, he'll have lots of stuff to say that SRD doesn't want to reveal yet.

That was my thoughts too - this is probably the least "spoilerish" chapter he could have posted and it does follow directly with the last book, so that's a plus.

Still... it's made a long wait seem even longer now that I've read this LOL

Post by **Krilly** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:58 pm

You know... I always assumed the Sarangrave-wandering being bearing a token of power that the Feroce mentioned was Longwrath (and his special sword)

But after reading this I wonder if that was Brinn and his boon, gift, whatever.

If so, makes me wonder what he brought.

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:44 pm

My thoughts:

It's not surprising to see Brinn again - in fact, judging from the mood of the chapter, and taken into account the TLD trailer, it's apparent we're going to see alot of resolution (ie death) of minor characters.

I'm having trouble comprehending the use of "simony" as it relates Brinn's retribution of the Masters.

Obviously Brinn can heal TC without healing TC's leprosy - something that Linden would've had difficulty doing with the SoL.

This got a big "Hell yeah!" from me:

I'm white gold.

Post by **Vraith** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:02 pm

Krilly wrote:You know... I always assumed the Sarangrave-wandering being bearing a token of power that the Feroce mentioned was Longwrath (and his special sword)

I still think that's right.
But I think Brinn, boon, Longwrath, sword, and TC are coming together...probably.

dlb, yea, I liked the white gold, too.

I'm also wondering on simony. I thought at first he might be playing with the homographic similarity with parsimony and altering definition simony would be the "sin" of being parsimonious...and that would be simple... except for the very precise and limited definition of simony. I don't think he would use that kind of word JUST because of visual resemblance.

The best I've come up with so far: the Har have bought their Mastery/Purity at the cost/for the price of the Land's [and its people's] gifts and potentials.

Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:01 pm

Quick thought:

Covenant brings the Krill to life, and suddenly a figure appears before him, a figure dressed in a robe.

The Creator perhaps? Yes? Could it be?

Oh, it's THAT guy...

"Simony... blah blah... "

Post by **Dagonet** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:41 pm

dlbpharmd wrote:My thoughts:

I'm having trouble comprehending the use of "simony" as it relates Brinn's retribution of the Masters.

Perhaps it's a set-up for the Haruchai finally coming to their senses, emptying out their storehouse of all those relics/objects of power, arming every Stonedowner/Woodhelvennin they can find, and leading them against the skurj and Sandgorgons.

Post by **kevinswatch** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:21 am

Nice!!! Covenant is still here! THOOLAH!!!

-jay

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:56 pm

After long ages of slumber, the Worm now draws nigh unto the Land, seeking its final sustenance. In natural consequence, the One Tree expires to its roots.

There goes the theories about a return trip to the One Tree.

But he had never struck a blow against the Despiser’s most fatal servants.

Damn, I'm looking forward to this. Turiya Herem deserves everything that's coming to him.

Post by **High Lord Tolkien** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:42 pm

dlbpharmd wrote:
After long ages of slumber, the Worm now draws nigh unto the Land, seeking its final sustenance. In natural consequence, the One Tree expires to its roots.
There goes the theories about a return trip to the One Tree.

[

Yeah, i thought the One Tree would have been the horn of the Worm....oh well.....

Post by **variol son** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:49 am

SRD's use of the word simony aside, the idea that the Masters have lost the generosity of spirit seen in previous Haruchai, and especially the Bloodguard, was very much an "of course" moment.

The way it's come together in my mind over the past few hours, by becoming the Bloodguard, the Haruchai sought to repay Kevin by preserving everything he loved. It was an act by which they hoped to prove themselves equal to him, while at the same time I don't really believe it had anything to do with indebtedness, or settling scores as such.

By becoming Masters of the Land however, they sought to obey Covenant by suppressing everything he loved about the Land, and their attempts to prove themselves equal to him come across kind of, "if you shout me a coffee then I have to shout you one of exactly the same value so that neither of us ever owes the other". More about rules and precepts and rigid score-keeping than generosity or gratefulness.

And I love it when Brinn gave them a dressing down and then turned away - they've heard it all before (as have we) from Covenant and Linden and Stave, and I thought it more powerful that he made his point and then disregarded them.

SRD wrote:You do not hear, and so you cannot be redeemed.

But yeah, just some thoughts so far.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

TLD Chap 3: Not Dead to Life and Use

TLD Chap 3: Not Dead to Life and Use

Chapter 3