Yet another shining example of what is wrong with this country. Why would a 'plus' sized person even want to do business with a company that doesn't want their dollars? Bottom line: If they don't want to make clothes for fat people then they don't have to.Abercrombie & Fitch CEO Mike Jeffries set off a cultural backlash when said that his company is primarily interested in 'good-looking people.' But the company is jealously guarding its brand, even as the market for plus-size teens grows.
Abercrombie & Fitch, one of the top sellers of young adult clothing in America, is again mired in controversy, this time over its refusal to offer plus-size clothes for teens.
The retailer, which operates 295 stores across the US, is the target of several online protests responding to comments made in a 2006 interview by its CEO, Mike Jeffries, who said he is primarily interested in marketing to “the cool kids” and “good-looking people.”
“We go after the attractive all-American kid with a great attitude and a lot of friends. A lot of people don’t belong [in our clothes], and they can’t belong. Are we exclusionary? Absolutely. Those companies that are in trouble are trying to target everybody: young, old, fat, skinny. But then you become totally vanilla.”
The remarks, which originally ran in Salon, were republished this month by Business Insider in a wider story about marketing to plus-size teenagers. The article title, “Abercrombie & Fitch refuses to make clothes for large women,” didn’t help soften things either.
Mr. Jeffries says the quotes were taken out of context. In a Facebook posting last week, he said that while he regretted his word choice and is “strongly committed to diversity and inclusion,” his brand is “aspirational” in that “targets its marketing at a particular segment of customers.”
This week, a spokesperson for the company told NBC News that, “we sincerely regret and apologize for any offense caused by comments we have made in the past which are contrary” to “diversity and inclusion.”
Those gestures have not swayed critics who say the company is creating damaging images for teenagers both through its marketing images, which typically show svelte models in provocative poses, and its policy of not offering clothing for women above size 10.
The controversy is not the first for the retailer. In the past, it was criticized for photo shoots that showed young teenagers in positions that suggested they were participating in group sex, along with ad copy in its catalog that some ridiculed as soft pornography. The company is also remembered for a T-shirt line, later recalled, that mocked Asians
An online protest that asks the company to “start making clothes for young people of all shapes and sizes” has collected more than 71,000 signatures, and a viral video on YouTube that asks people who own clothing made by the company to donate them to the homeless, has more than 7.2 million views. Other protests, such as a campaign by plus-size blogger Jes Baker, have entered the spotlight for presenting arguments on why catering to the needs of plus-size youth matters.
The plus-size market for teenage clothing was largely ignored until the recession, says Marshal Cohen, chief retail analyst at the NPD Group. Once considered a niche, with growth potential in the single digits, the market is now more desirous for companies that need to make their bottom line at whatever cost. That can mean expanding their clothing lines with fashion-forward products that appeal to the growing population of plus-size teens.
Swedish retailer H&M, denim retailer Lucky Brand, and The Limited all created specialty brands targeting teenage girls who are plus-sized. Even reality television stars the Kardashian sisters are getting into the game; their plus-size brand Kardashian Kurves, launched this year at Sears.
“We’re just getting bigger and bigger and bigger so the number of people entering into plus-size continues to get bigger. There’s always been the opportunity, but never one that somebody’s tried to capitalize on before,” says Mr. Cohen. “What you have now are consumers desperately seeking fashion for their size and retailers saying, ‘We get it, we’ll offer you something.’ ”
Research that shows that obesity is particularly prevalent among children and teenagers. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) says that in 2009-10, 17 percent of US children and adolescents were reported as obese, which is three times the obesity rate just one generation ago. The age group most likely to be obese: those aged 12 to 19.
The NPD Group, a market research firm in Port Washington, N.Y., says that clothing retailers have mostly accommodated this trend by offering larger clothing sizes – since 1960, for example, the average dress size increased from size 8 to 14. Two-thirds of women identify themselves as “special-sized,” according to NPD, which means there is more demand for this type of clothing in the women’s clothing market, valued at $111 billion in 2012.
Cohen says that despite the opportunity that others have capitalized on, it is unlikely that Abercrombie & Fitch will do a mea culpa and launch a plus-size brand.
“Abercrombie from Day 1 said, ‘We are about the iconic image of the quintessential affluent teen' … and they want to maintain that certain imagery at all cost,” he says. Switching gears in response to the current controversy may appease critics, he adds, but it will ultimately dilute what gave the brand value in the first place.
“If they alter their course, they’ll do more damage than good,” Cohen says. “If you try to be something for everybody, you end up being nothing for everyone.”
A & F: What's Wrong With Selling Just to 'Cool People?'
A & F: What's Wrong With Selling Just to 'Cool People?'
Never underestimate the power of denial. - Ricky Fitts
I salute their position and think they're pansies for apologizing.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Obi-Wan Nihilo
- Still Not Buying It
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[Syl]
- Unfettered One
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There is very little chance for AF to lose in this situation, as demonstrated by the discussion here . Intentionally generated controversy, i think. The apology is part of the whole package.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
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Hashi Lebwohl
- The Gap Into Spam
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That suit would be made on really shaky legal grounds. They aren't denying access, they're just not making plus sizes. Nike doesn't make wide-width shoes, I can't sue them if their shoes don't fit my feet.SerScot wrote:Well, it will be interesting when somone sues on public accomedations grounds. Then again, what would their damages be?
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Vraith
- The Gap Into Spam
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Yea, I can't imagine how a judge wouldn't dismiss it out of hand...or letting a verdict against the company stand if the case were allowed. [Heh...which doesn't mean it COULDN't happen, unfortunately.]Cail wrote:That suit would be made on really shaky legal grounds. They aren't denying access, they're just not making plus sizes. Nike doesn't make wide-width shoes, I can't sue them if their shoes don't fit my feet.SerScot wrote:Well, it will be interesting when somone sues on public accomedations grounds. Then again, what would their damages be?
I don't think there's anything wrong/actionable here.
But I think there are a few kinds of stupid.
It seems stupid for them to say something like that publicly and not expect a backlash.
I'm not sure it makes business sense to limit their market...but it might. Pros and cons on that...it seems the cons would be greater. Maybe not.
OTOH, it seems stupid for folk to do much more than just laugh at them and stop buying their stuff if they're offended.
And really I think it's silly [though I know it's everywhere, in various forms] for folk to judge their own, and others, coolness/worth by the label on their clothes.
Really?!? "I can't get a good girlfriend/boyfriend/life cuz A&F doesn't sell my size!!!"
[not to mention...IMO, their stuff is, aesthetically, Not Unattractive, but Nothing Special at best and FUGLY at worst.]
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
My wife got a pair of those jeans with the sparkly pockets for $16 at Sam's Club several months ago. I just found out that they are basically Kiss Me knockoffs. Actual Kiss Me jeans are $130.00!?!? Are you kidding me? And my wife has a friend who will only wear the real thing. This same friend is currently receiving food stamps to the tune of $500.00 per month because she recently divorced and quit her job but found out that the child support wasn't enough to live on.
Star-Bellied Sneetches comes to mind. There are definitely people who will only wear expensive popular brands. There are people who live in apartments/trailers etc. who drive brand new SUVs.
I wear a lot of Polo brand clothes. I never pay retail. I always find sales. When I was a teen, it was probably a front, so to speak. Now I buy them because they fit me well and they LAST. Polo makes a great product most of the time. I could care less if it had the polo logo on it. But when I was a teen, I probably wouldn't have wanted it without the logo.
Star-Bellied Sneetches comes to mind. There are definitely people who will only wear expensive popular brands. There are people who live in apartments/trailers etc. who drive brand new SUVs.
I wear a lot of Polo brand clothes. I never pay retail. I always find sales. When I was a teen, it was probably a front, so to speak. Now I buy them because they fit me well and they LAST. Polo makes a great product most of the time. I could care less if it had the polo logo on it. But when I was a teen, I probably wouldn't have wanted it without the logo.
Never underestimate the power of denial. - Ricky Fitts
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sgt.null
- Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
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harbinger - sorry but that friend needs to be cut off of assistance.
Julie showed me the Tiffany website...
www.tiffany.com/Shopping/CategoryBrowse ... cat=148204
stuff in the hundreds of thousands. some stuff in the millions.
I can't convey how sickening it is. they make jewelry so people can show how separate they are from the mundane world. what reason would anyone need jewelry that costs that much?
I don't normally begrudge anyone their money, but damn that sort of excess just hits me as wrong.
Julie showed me the Tiffany website...
www.tiffany.com/Shopping/CategoryBrowse ... cat=148204
stuff in the hundreds of thousands. some stuff in the millions.
I can't convey how sickening it is. they make jewelry so people can show how separate they are from the mundane world. what reason would anyone need jewelry that costs that much?
I don't normally begrudge anyone their money, but damn that sort of excess just hits me as wrong.
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
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TheFallen
- Master of Innominate Surquedry
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I completely agree with Cail, Syl and Hashi on this. There's nothing to stop A&F defining its target market like this. In fact, it would be pernicious if there *was* anything to stop it. And deliberately resurrecting a seven year old story probably costs less in PR terms than having to generate and place a whole new one. Clever stuff.
It strikes me that it's centrally important to A&F's business model for it to maintain a specialist "aspirational" image - or how else would they manage to charge three times as much as anyone else for pretty much exactly the same item of shoddy quality clothing? All they've done to differentiate is add "brand value". However, if the values they've managed to cunningly instil into their brand are that only "cool", "good-looking" and "affluent" kids wear their clothes, then from a purely cynical marketing viewpoint, they've done rather well, don't you think? Could you get any more aspirational?
It's hardly a new trick, but fortunately for those in the world of fashion, there's a never-ending supply of dumb sheep-like consumers to come flocking in and overpaying.
I really don't see what the fuss is about. Is it not the God-given calling of any business in a capitalist environment to commercially exploit its target market up to the very limits of legality while simultaneously ensuring it maintains their brainwashing enough to keep them coming back for more?
On that basis, hats off to A&F, say I... maximising margins out of the moronic. Well done.
It strikes me that it's centrally important to A&F's business model for it to maintain a specialist "aspirational" image - or how else would they manage to charge three times as much as anyone else for pretty much exactly the same item of shoddy quality clothing? All they've done to differentiate is add "brand value". However, if the values they've managed to cunningly instil into their brand are that only "cool", "good-looking" and "affluent" kids wear their clothes, then from a purely cynical marketing viewpoint, they've done rather well, don't you think? Could you get any more aspirational?
It's hardly a new trick, but fortunately for those in the world of fashion, there's a never-ending supply of dumb sheep-like consumers to come flocking in and overpaying.
V, I'm more than sure that the above thought process is shared - at least subconsciously - by a huge number of teens.Vraith wrote:And really I think it's silly [though I know it's everywhere, in various forms] for folk to judge their own, and others, coolness/worth by the label on their clothes.
Really?!? "I can't get a good girlfriend/boyfriend/life cuz A&F doesn't sell my size!!!"
I really don't see what the fuss is about. Is it not the God-given calling of any business in a capitalist environment to commercially exploit its target market up to the very limits of legality while simultaneously ensuring it maintains their brainwashing enough to keep them coming back for more?
On that basis, hats off to A&F, say I... maximising margins out of the moronic. Well done.
Newsflash: the word "irony" doesn't mean "a bit like iron" 
Shockingly, some people have claimed that I'm egocentric... but hey, enough about them
"If you strike me down, I shall become far stronger than you can possibly imagine."
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I occasionally post things here because I am invariably correct on all matters, a thing which is educational for others less fortunate.
Shockingly, some people have claimed that I'm egocentric... but hey, enough about them
"If you strike me down, I shall become far stronger than you can possibly imagine."
_______________________________________________
I occasionally post things here because I am invariably correct on all matters, a thing which is educational for others less fortunate.
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Orlion
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Who cares? Are we now going to tell the doctors to "heal thyself!" before we get prescriptions or treatment?
It's stupid that "uncool" and "fat" people with that much disposable income play right into A & F's hands for getting free advertising reminding everybody they exist. So as these people "creatively protest", the CEO gets richer and richer. And for what? Public perception?
It's like when they released that holiday guide with all that nudity. They got far more attention outraging people then they ever get doing what every other clothing company does.
Stock actually increased in price after each of these incidents, BTW. So much for people disapproving of A & F's tactics.
It's stupid that "uncool" and "fat" people with that much disposable income play right into A & F's hands for getting free advertising reminding everybody they exist. So as these people "creatively protest", the CEO gets richer and richer. And for what? Public perception?
It's like when they released that holiday guide with all that nudity. They got far more attention outraging people then they ever get doing what every other clothing company does.
Stock actually increased in price after each of these incidents, BTW. So much for people disapproving of A & F's tactics.
'Tis dream to think that Reason can
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
We care because it's irony. If a company caters to attractive people, you expect the head of the company to be attractive, and I find it humorous when he is about as objectively ugly as you can get.Orlion wrote:Who cares? Are we now going to tell the doctors to "heal thyself!" before we get prescriptions or treatment?
If you want a doctor analogy, imagine a doctor refuses to prescribe insulin to patients with Type 2 diabetes because they "brought it on themselves." Now imagine said doctor develops type 2 diabetes himself.
yeah it's not as if we didn't KNOW who their target market is already!! LOL!!!
i tend to agree that the whole thing was a campaign.
i was never "cool" (read skinny) enough to shop there in the
first place and besides i never thought their clothing was all that
interesting. kinda generic and boring if you ax me. heh.
i tend to agree that the whole thing was a campaign.
i was never "cool" (read skinny) enough to shop there in the
first place and besides i never thought their clothing was all that
interesting. kinda generic and boring if you ax me. heh.
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
I've only bought one thing there. It was an olive green T-shirt that read. " You Looked Better as a Freshman." LOL.
Got lots of conversations started with that shirt- some (read couple) got me laid. Great shirt! Still have it. Haven't worn in 7 years at least.
Got lots of conversations started with that shirt- some (read couple) got me laid. Great shirt! Still have it. Haven't worn in 7 years at least.
Never underestimate the power of denial. - Ricky Fitts
Easily remedied. Visit more often. 