Turning Points in Human History.

[peter]

A brief history of the world I am currently reading begins with an Introduction in which the Author states that he believes the course of human history has been changed by two disinct and far reaching events - namely the development of settled agriculture and the industrial revolution. I take these on board as staggeringly important in the story of how we got to where we are now, but wonder if 'the Rennaisanse/Enlightenment' can be so easily brushed aside. Would not the industrial revolution really sit inside the enlightenment as a consequence rather than a distinct event in itself. Indeed could there have been an industrial revolution without a scientific one to preceed it.

Lastly and more speculatively, are we curently at the beginning of yet another such 'sea-change' in human history in the teeth of two current yet equally far reaching developments - 'the computer age' and 'climate change'.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

I suspect he passes over the Renaissance/Enlightenment because those were mostly Europe-centric and not essentially global. After the collapse of Rome, the seats of learning and scientific knowledge shifted back to Egypt, the Middle East, and China. Of course, except for the Silk Road, Egypt and China were so far apart that they might have been different planets. Still, Omar Khayyam was solving rudimentary cubic equations centuries before Cardano did. The effects of the Renaissance did not spread like agriculture and were carried only to the places where Europeans traveled.

I can see the Industrial Revolution being one massive change that has an effect on the entire planet. It spelled the end of the agricultural world that had existed for millenia to the point now where farms are often a novelty, something like a musueam to which we take our children because they have never seen one before and have no idea how they work. My great-grandparents were the last people in our family to have actually owned and worked a farm so in my particular case it has been nearly a century.

I wouldn't count climate change as the next thing that will have a global effect and I wouldn't even use the generic "information age"; rather, I would agree that The Internet itself is the next global change. A person now can carry a smart device and have access to an unimaginably vast library of information at their fingertips, often anywhere they go. In the coming years, those devices will become smaller, often wearable, or possibly even implanted into us to hide that we have them. That is going to change our life in ways we still cannot image.
The primary way this change will manifest itself is in laziness. Although receiving an education is a good thing and we should always learn to think for ourselves, from a certain point of view we could ask why anyone would need an education beyond learning how to access already-existing information. Why should a student learn how to interpret a poem when they can simply look up the poem and read a dozen critiques and analyses of that poem written by other people? Why learn how to solve difficult algebraic or calculus questions when we can enter them into WolframAlpha and have it spit out the answer almost immediately? Rather than memorizing history we can simply type in a country name or a year and be given details about who, what, where, when, and often why. If your wearable or implanted smart device is connected to its 5G network (or whatever new wireless technology emerges) and you have access to all that information all the time, displayable on your glasses/goggles, then why would you have to learn anything other than how to read and how to search for information? Those devices could make us the ultimate trained monkey--the only job training you need is to read these few pages and watch some videos on how to do the job then start doing it...but I have to admit that sometimes I wouldn't mind having all that information available to me at a moment's notice. My enjoyment of a Kandinsky painting would be enhanced by also listening to a critique of it or listening to a music selection that pairs well with the art. My enjoyment of a beautifully-designed building could be enhanced by examining the engineering equations or design ideas that went into its construction.

Of course, that leads us to The Singularity, an event which I think is farther away than its adherents believe and which isn't going to be as amazing as they think it will be. No, I wouldn't mind having an implanted computer, especially if that implant also had an always-on connection, but if police are already worried by people videoing them with smart devices how are they going to react if they think I have a bionic eye that doubles as a webcam? There is already a guy with a prosthetic eye into which he has implanted a webcam; he hires himself out as a "hidden camera" for investigative reporters or PIs.

Fascinating stuff, to be certain.

[Avatar]

We inevitably advance more rapidly technologically, than we do socially. I wonder what the impact of the Internet age will be on us...how behaviour will change?

--A

[peter]

The singularity Hashi? I'm struggling to deal with the Cloud! If the developments you speak off lead to atrophy of some brain capabilities (and there is indeed the risk that they will) then the possibility of stagnation as a species (mentally at least) becomes a significant risk. I think the learning of information rather than just the acessing of it allows the most mentally agile of us to shift, swap and juxtapose ideas in a way tht is fruitfull for development of yet further progress. Some individuals will learn purely in the course of acessing, but most (like me) require more repetition to actually take ideas on board. Thus the potential for development of new ideas could be much reduced - purely because the slower ones (who still have much to contribute given the right conditions) will have been deprived of the learning process that could have allowed them to flower.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

We inevitably advance more rapidly technologically, than we do socially. I wonder what the impact of the Internet age will be on us...how behaviour will change?

--A

The changes that are already happening are 1) a lack of privacy (especially as connected webcams in things like Google glasses become more widespread), 2) an inability to escape youthful indiscretions/stupid mistakes--if your failure is uploaded then it will be there for your children to see in years to come, and 3) laziness, especially in language and grammar via textspeak (lolwut?).

The changes that will happen will be that we have a lot of people who do not develop long-term memory, as peter notes. Why memorize facts when you can look up the appropriate information instantly? Of course, this will result in the lack of creativity he also notes. You cannot develop something new if you haven't internalized enough information to ask new questions. Like I said earlier--school will be pointless because you can access accurate information on any subject whenever you need it.

It is also possible that language barriers will begin to fall as people online begin to need to be able communicate...unless we all just rely on online translation sites, that is.

[I'm Murrin]

I wouldn't put the language changes so negatively, Hashi. The majority of linguistic change comes from everyday use tending towards shorthand and contraction - what you're calling laziness.

The internet has done something for language: It's greatly spread the use of conversational written language, which differs from formal written language about as much as formal writing does from everyday speech. Mass literacy mostly meant that everyone could receive information from newspapers and books. The internet has made it so everyone now communicates in writing.

By the way, it's slightly amusing seeing the "Director of Data Acquisition" decrying the shift in human intelligence from memorisation toward the ability to access and use data.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

By the way, it's slightly amusing seeing the "Director of Data Acquisition" decrying the shift in human intelligence from memorisation toward the ability to access and use data.

I am actually of two minds about it. On the one hand it is upsetting that so many more of us are going to be more stupid in the future despite having access to more information but on the other hand all those people being more stupid will feed my ego more than it does now.

This all depends upon whether our always-connected devices are small and wearable or implanted. If only small and wearable then there will be millions of people who are simultaneously dumb but educated as they look up information online as needed. If implanted...well, that will change everything--all that information could actually be stored in a flash drive connected directly to our brain. This would create millions of geniuses (or at least people with access to tons of information all the time). I, myself, would undergo that sort of surgery because I would love to have a USB port connected to my brain. My wife think I am weird for wanting that but I would have many uses for 128 GB of flash memory.

[I'm Murrin]

Not stupid. Smart in a different way.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

hrm...good point. It isn't fair to call someone "stupid" who knows how to quickly access information. They may not know the information beforehand but they know it--or at least have been exposed to it--afterwards.

[Cybrweez]

I know centuries ago, Jews would memorize the Torah, b/c there just weren't copies floating around to look up passages. They might look at anyone after printing press time and say they are lazy. So you are lazy hashi b/c you haven't memorized a book yet.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Another good point. The people whom I call "lazy" now might actually have a better time at being creative. With access to all that information the potential for cross-pollination of ideas will happen more frequently, giving rise to new artists or schools of art as well as new directions in science.

[Avatar]

It's a topic I'm severely conflicted about. Being largely raised in the memorisation school myself, (my reaction to reading a poem I love is to memorise it so I can hear it whenever I want), I'm generally in favour of the use of memory as a means to exercise the brain.

There are advantages, and there are disadvantages. But there are some things that can never be taught, only learned. And learning is going to be increasingly unnecessary. Well, in the sense of acquiring knowledge.

On the other hand in order to do something, things must be learnt. Perhaps more of that sort of learning may result.

--A

[peter]

A further point here is that historically the 'contraction' of writing systems for increased speed and efficiency of use has not resulted in there being less capable of transmitting information, but on the contrary often they become more so. The very development of our own system by the phonecians, in response to the need for a rapid flexible means of storing complex information about trading transactions etc, was a vast improvement over the cumbersome pictogram/ideogram systems it ultimately replaced.

[Holsety]

There is already a guy with a prosthetic eye into which he has implanted a webcam; he hires himself out as a "hidden camera" for investigative reporters or PIs.

Strange...I don't suppose the feed from the prosthetic eye is somehow connected to his vision, is it?
(I know that's a bit off-topic.)

[Hashi Lebwohl]

There is already a guy with a prosthetic eye into which he has implanted a webcam; he hires himself out as a "hidden camera" for investigative reporters or PIs.

Strange...I don't suppose the feed from the prosthetic eye is somehow connected to his vision, is it?
(I know that's a bit off-topic.)

No, he doesn't actively see via the prosthetic eye; he only captures video through it and then can watch the playback later. I suppose he could have it connected to a smartphone and see it in real time but that would be obvious.

[Vraith]

I know centuries ago, Jews would memorize the Torah, b/c there just weren't copies floating around to look up passages. They might look at anyone after printing press time and say they are lazy. So you are lazy hashi b/c you haven't memorized a book yet.

Heh..actually, [you may be aware of this...] one of the few major disagreements between Plato and Socrates ...as far as we know...was that Socrates thought writing would make people stupid, and Plato thought writing great. [IIRC...and of course it is uncertain, given the lack of documents.]

Really, I think memory is over-rated for many things, the ordinary day to day stuff.
But I don't think really deep, complicated thought can be done without a prodigious memory.
The funny thing is that most "memorization" exercises/methods/techniques don't work.

[Avatar]

hrm...good point. It isn't fair to call someone "stupid" who knows how to quickly access information. They may not know the information beforehand but they know it--or at least have been exposed to it--afterwards.

Ignorant. Or uninformed.

--A

[peter]

Much would depend as well, on what they were capable of doing with that information.

(re the fairness of calling people stupid - the term only fairly aplies when people do things below their given level of intelligence due to lack of thought. It can never be aplied to someone just because they had not recieved the gift of high intellect [not I hasten to add Hahi, that this is what I think you were doing above].)

[Hashi Lebwohl]

No, I reserve the adjective "stupid" for people who should know better but make poor choices anyway or for people who choose not to learn anything out of stubborness or laziness. People who have not had the opportunity to learn something are merely "uninformed" or "uneducated", which carry no negative connotations whatsoever. I, myself, have often been either uninformed or uneducated in my life--there are still things about which I know nothing. There is nothing wrong with not knowing something because you haven't had the chance to learn about it; there is definitely something wrong with not taking an opportunity to learn or choosing not to learn something because you simply don't want to.

This is completely separate from people who, though the randomness of birth, were given brains that do not process information as quickly or as completely as others. Someone born with an IQ of 85 is not stupid; they simply have a disadvantage that can be difficult to overcome at times. That, also, carries no negative connotations in my opinion because I do not think poorly of someone who has that burden to bear.

Now that I think about it, I realize that if we can begin enhancing ourselves by converting ourselves into cyborgs, especially if we can develop neural interfaces with small computers, then we will make more advances than we have ever been able to before. If we are able to upload gigabytes of information onto a flash drive connected to our brain then school becomes irrelevant--all the necessary foundation of information is available instantly with perfect recall. Although I might have called this lazy before, I neglected to consider the alternative that people might be able to start from this foundation and acheive things which were not possible before. How would you react to a 7-year-old who can solve differential equations then discuss Mondrian's journey from painting to abstraction with you in Russian (or whatever language you choose, presuming they have a database for it)? If this were available, even if only on an experimental basis, I would volunteer to undergo the surgery despite the risks--the benefits would be worth it.

The Internet itself won't revolutionize the world, but cyborg technology certainly will. It is already changing the world for people who are otherwise immobile--paraplegics are now able to have prosthetic arms that are controlled by thoughts and I have seen three different exoskeleton designs that allow paraplegics to walk on their own. In decades past they would have been relegated to a wheelchair and 24-hour assitance but within my children's lifetime they will be able to attain self-sufficiency and conduct a "normal" life, even including driving a car and holding a job.

[peter]

I'm getting the impression perhaps Hashi, that you do think we are currently at a turning point in our history that could be comparable in it's raech to the invention of farming or the enlightenment.