Kevin's Watch

Completed WGW for the umpteenth time last week and started thinking about the end of the novel with (perhaps) more mature perceptions or reflections.

I divide my comments into three distinct areas.

First and foremost, has the Arch of Time been affected by the first blow of Foul in using Covenant's Ring? There is some indication that the very first shot is directed at the Arch, with some impact. Covenant only appears after the first shot occurs. Perhaps we now have a weakened Arch? A fractured one that can be manipulated?

Second, what REALLY happened to Foul? Reading into SRD's words, Foul actually "went out", which is the same thing SRD says about Covenant and Avery when they are returned to Earth. Fascinating concept there. Where did Foul go to? He could not transcend the Arch of Time. Is it possible that Foul went to Earth? What does "banishment" mean in this context? And if Covenant and Foul are really two sides of the same coin, then Foul is as much "alive" and "sentient" as Covenant is in the Land, even if he is in a reduced capacity . . . for the moment. The ultimate flaw in the Land may be that there is no way to completely erase Foul since there is no way to kill him without destroying the Arch.

Finally, what did LA actually do at the end of the second chronicles? Surely, she is a flawed character by any assessment, and "evil" as she put it, has a place in her existence.

Consider this a fascinating character to "remake" the Land. The Staff of Law is now a living object, fashioned from her thoughts (and the physical realities of Vain and Findail) of what it should be. What was her concept, having no frame of reference the way Covenant had? Her own flaws, and perhaps warped sense of judgment and compassion, may now be part of the Law of the Land? In addition, her actions were inconsistent. She healed the Giants, but LEFT THE RAVERS ALIVE.

Just a few thoughts. Anyone think about these issues recently?

but LEFT THE RAVERS ALIVE. OMG!! Ive been saying that for months! No one has believed me or thought my arugment relevant.
Yes, I remember the Arch attacked, maybe it can be manipulated...but if, as you say, Foul has been "banished" then a weak Arch doesnt matter. The Ravers, while a viable threat, really cant do anythign beyond the Land. Foul here...hehe very freaky. But not feasible(I can never speall that word!). He can manipulate people $cough Joan cough$ but cant actually be here...at least I dont think so. In TWL his "face" appeared, but he didnt...physically. If he could then why didnt he before? It would have been to his advantage. But now, he definitely cant if he couldnt before because now hes WEAKER.

Foul can be defeated, but not killed. He has to exist in the land to oppose good. Good cannot exist without evil. He will be back in the third chronicles if there is one.

As far as Linden Avery, yes she was flawed. It was necessary for the Creatror to choose her for that reason. He needed someone to bear the burden she was tasked with, someone who wanted to be good, but felt she was evil, and craved the power to make herself good. Once she saw Convenant fall, she finally realized the sacrifice he had to make to beat Foul, and then he convinced her to heal the land.

I think the part that interested me most was when TC told LA that they would always be together.

I'll tell you one thing though - I never quite figured out what exactly the Sunbane was and the link betwen it and the Clave feeding it blood from Revelstone didn't quite make sense to me.

Some interesting points there Vain....yes Covenant told Linden theyd "always be together" and that definitely has some signifigance.

Yes, very interesting. Also, consider the last line of WGW-- "With her right hand, Linden Avery kept a sure hold of her wedding ring" Her wedding ring.Significant phrasing, I think.

when LF "went out", I think SRD meant this as a metaphor: he went out as a fire goes out eventually; and, remember, what LF did after TPTP? he hid himself near Earthroot, where Earthpower was at its strongest, and healed himself there, drawing power from the very power he aimed to conquer
now there is Earthpower abundant in the Land again, Linden has seen to it: plenty of possibilities for LF to regain his former stature...

as for the Arch being affected by the battle between TC and LF, I do not know: there is the Creator still sitting outside the Arch, he cannot reach through the Arch, but surely he can strengthen it from the outside?

I dont think so. He didnt survive because of the Earthpower...well not ONLY the Earthpower...he only survived because there was no Law, but now there is. Hes not strong enough to live anymore. But fantasy is fantasy....hell pull of a comeback.

from one point of view he is a god; he cannot be undone that easily
from the other he is the theological/moral counterpart of Good; their fight is eternal

Yes, but Foul is also a part of Covenant, just like the Land itself, and Covenant is dead ... but then again, we don't know how dead he is...

that's what Covenant thinks

Well, I think it's true that they are connected.

Theyre NOT connected!!

Sorry, but I think they are.

they may be, but it's nowhere explicitly stated, only in TC's own ideas about himself

Yes ... but I think it's part of something Donaldson is trying to say with the books. As if Foul is the incarnation of the evil within Covenant ... or something like that.

My theory about the Sunbane is that it was a magical construct that had a sort of independent life, a bit like Amok. I don't think it was sentient, though.

And as to the Covenant and Linden always being together part, I've wondered about that too. It might be simply that Covenant is able to look through the "veil" at Linden in the Real World, and with the differences in the passage of time being what they are, Covenant might live with Linden her whole life and still have time for concentrating on other stuff. But it might be more than that...

I'm sure Lord Foul will be back in some capacity. Possibly Linden's crafting left some hole for him that did not exist in the original Staff of Law, which she had never seen. Perhaps even he went to the Real World. It's hard to say which ideas are far fetched when we are talking about an unpublished fantasy book that contains ultrapowerful magic and is written by Donaldson.

I just thought of this, but if they are *somehow* connected ... perhaps LF somehow lives on in Covenant's son ... (just and idea)

I'm open to the idea of LF and TC being connected, even though I'm convinced the Land is real - it's another of the paradoxes that run throughout the chronicles...but i'm not convinced either way yet...

I too wonder as to exact nature of the Sunbane; we know what it does, and we know it's visual manifestation, but what actually is it? I really have no idea...

I'm fascinated by the idea that the healing of Land that LA performed could be flawed, as she herself is, and indeed her lack of knowledge/understanding of the Land, and it's pre-Sunbane condition could lead to some interesting results... Will the "new" Land be "the Land as imagined by Linden Avery"?

As regards LF's recovery, both now and previously, this was his third defeat we know of. As I have said before, it seems to me that LF doesn't require the Earthpower to heal himself, and it makes no difference that the Laws were broken. IMO, Foul will always recover, given time. He recovered after the Ritual of Desecration, even though the Laws were intact, and the entire Land was blighted and barren.

Very interesting concepts on this thread. Glad to see others have had thoughts about the loose ends.

On Roger Covenant, there's many fascinating concepts in the character. Perhaps Foul will seek to corrupt RC, or lies within him.

I think Linden's healing of the Land begs for trouble. She could not heal herself or really come to grips with her past, so I think she could easily "reset" the Land with a place for Foul. She also has an arrogance about her when it comes to dealing with death (her mother, the Haruchai, etc.) that could drastically unbalance things. And I love the concept that the Law itself now contains her inherent flaws and is alive, therefore adaptive/changing etc.