Kevin's Watch

Something I've been thinking about lately, especially with the development of Star Wars VII, is that there hasn't been much Hollywood exploration of films featuring epic space battles.

Ever since special effects reached a point where just about anything was possible on screen to depict a galaxy winning contest of epic proportions I have been waiting for someone to deliver a film that would literally blast the audience through the back wall of the theater.

The Star Wars films have probably delivered the closest thing to a truly epic space battle. The opening minutes of ROTS was fairly cool if oddly disappointing since the central motivation was essentially a rescue mission with a war raging in the background. The Deathstar battles 1 and 2 were okay but again the scenes weren't really about the battle so much as a delaying tactic or diversion to allow something far less grand to occur.

Star Trek films have had interesting moments too but generally its just two ships having a go at each other and not always in an impressive way.
Actually the best that Star Trek has had to offer was in the last moments of Deep Space 9 during the Dominion War. Television gave us some impressive action but alas the big screen has yet to offer up anything to compare. Heck television seems to be the only credible source as on more than one occasion Battlestar Galactica offered up some impressive visuals.

Starship Troopers had an exciting moment or two but giant bugs blasting capital ships out of the sky with glowing balls of butt blast isn't really much of a battle.

The poorly executed Wing Commander film gave it a try but again pretty weak.

I don't know where its going to come from or when but sooner or later this particular itch of mine will be scratched. Its just too appealing an idea to leave sitting on someone's desk.

Massively epic space battles with giant capital ships filling the screen with squadrons of smaller ships chasing each other around. But not so some minor, relatively insignificant plot point can be played out secretly by a charismatic hero, no the battle is the thing with clear and logical objectives for both sides. Something so massive and memorable that we'd all be talking about it for years to come. Of course and epic contest of this kind has to have relate-able, interesting and memorable characters and thought provoking plotting so I'm interested in the full package not just a show of eye popping FX.

I don't see so much as a flicker of a spark of possibility on the horizon for such an event. Not the way I imagine.

Let's face it; nothing can compare to the epic space battle in Moonraker, except perhaps the spectacle known to a select few as Orion's Sword.

dANdeLION wrote:Let's face it; nothing can compare to the epic space battle in Moonraker, except perhaps the spectacle known to a select few as Orion's Sword.

Had to bring up Orion's Sword.

Whenever I go on a rant of this type you have to trot out Orion's Sword to make your point.
Well fine. You are right as always. Orion's Sword is the most spectacular screenplay anyone has ever written.
Gary Marvin Grant should have gotten an oscar but that's not how this upside down world works. Instead it stands alone as the undisputed zenith of creativity in the movie business but still languishes in obscurity.
Lets not kid ourselves, there is only one Orion's Sword and frankly that's exactly the way its supposed to be. One Mona Lisa. One Earth. One Orion's Sword.

Nuff said.

I've been complaining for years about the lack of a good Star Wars space battle game for Xbox. Just think how awesome that would be! We haven't had a good space-based game for computer since "Tie Fighter."

The closest that Star Trek came to giving you the battle you desire was in "Nemesis," and that had the awful scene where Riker controlled the entire Enterprise with an Atari joystick.

I would give an honorable mention to DS9 for the battle with the Klingons.

Serenity had a decent space battle if I recall correctly.

But yes, there is a definite lack of space battles.

Battlestar Galactica. Yeah, it's a TV show, so what? Amazing space battles, both dogfights and dreadnoughts pounding each other.

Yep, BSG did it better than anything else I've seen. It actually devoted plotlines to dogfighting, and to the process of training fighter pilots, making clear their necessity to the survival of the human race. The stakes have never been higher. The battles are personal, and yet epic.

Gundam.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyNAHxP_fbA

Well I totally agree that BSG did a fantastic job of depicting what I am on about. I just wish I could exerience something as good in a theater.

A case of Hollywood imagination [or lack of it] failing to keep pace with the possibilities resulting from ever better CGI and animation tecniques available to film makers. Anybody else getting fed up with superhero movies, remakes and follow-ups [often all rolled into one!].

peter wrote:A case of Hollywood imagination [or lack of it] failing to keep pace with the possibilities resulting from ever better CGI and animation tecniques available to film makers. Anybody else getting fed up with superhero movies, remakes and follow-ups [often all rolled into one!].

I agree- it's a shame in a way as IMO the quality of the superhero films are only getting better. But for the sake of innovation in Hollywood, they really need to die.

They're going to die in the next few years. Too many being made, and with huge budgets they'll never earn back in full.

I'm Murrin wrote:They're going to die in the next few years. Too many being made, and with huge budgets they'll never earn back in full.

Nope, they ain't gonna die. They will likely change apparent style/genre...but it will still just be same book, different cover.

The only way to change the form of the industry is to change the audience/structure. But the aliens refuse to show the fuck up and invade [or "establish cultural ties and trade relations"].


That's why there are few epic space battles, too.

It might be pertinent to note that most of the "biggest flops" in history have actually made large profits when all is said and done.

And not just crap-classics like "plan nine from outer space," but epic fails like "waterworld."

sgt.null wrote:here

I was just about to post that!!!!
Awesome show. Awesome space battles.
i wish they'd remaster that stuff.

peter wrote:A case of Hollywood imagination [or lack of it] failing to keep pace with the possibilities resulting from ever better CGI and animation tecniques available to film makers. Anybody else getting fed up with superhero movies, remakes and follow-ups [often all rolled into one!].

I'm Murrin wrote:They're going to die in the next few years. Too many being made, and with huge budgets they'll never earn back in full.

Superhero movies, by their nature of using real-life actors, have to die. How many Iron Man movies can Mr. Downey make before he gets too old to play the part or bored with it? Five? Seven? Ten? The average for all characters/actors seems to be about 3 and the average time-to-sequel seems to be about 2.5 years. The only franchise that seems to be the exception to this rule is Bond--if you discount Timothy Dalton (who actually did a pretty good job but the franchise was tired at that time) and George Lazenby (who should have been cast for more than just one movie) then the Bond average seems to be 5 films spanning about a decade each.

Smaller-budget superhero movies like Defendor or Kick-Ass (whose sequel is almost out) will serve to keep the genre alive when big-budget blockbusters like Iron Man and The Avengers have gone away, which they must. People want to see *that* actor in *that* role, not some new wannabe replacement as Thor or Captain America.

The wild card superhero movies like Guardians of the Galaxy are impossible to forecast. It could do well but I expect it will flop except with true fans.

Now....back to epic space battles. Although I don't think the market is there yet for epic space battles outside of standard science fiction fans (I could be wrong, though) I suspect it is really because the people who make movies think that epic space battles are passe or they don't know how to one-up movies from the past. Ender's Game is coming up; I guess we will see what the current status of Hollywood-based space battles is like.

[Yes - but Hashi, as soon as the actor in question goes into decline they leave it a few years then come up with a re-...... [forget the word]. Think Batman and Superman and Spiderman etc; There really seems to be no point at which Hollywood will lay this overworked genre to rest.]

Wanted to show my good 'Watchy' credentials by finishing with a few good 'on-topic' comments about an at least semi-decent semi-recent space battle - but there aren't any.

Speaking of sequels and reboots, whatever the quality of the upcoming Star Wars sequel turns out to be, I think it would reasonable to hope for some epic space battles!