Kevin's Watch

Savor Dam wrote:Not to be piling on, but I found the following response from dlb rather ironic in light of his post about courtesy and respect:

dlbpharmd wrote:

TheFallen wrote:Linden - much like anchovies - is about as appealing as Satan's butthole. Thus only THOOLAH offers the true path to enlightenment.

It's a well-known fact that the lost and deluded members of that depraved sect, Linden's Army (I shudder even to mention its name) carry out obscene rituals where, after munching on countless anchovies, they sit down in a ring and spend hours at a time doing precisely nothing except for examining their own navels, agonising over their self-worth, weeping and wringing their hands and contemplating the anchovy oil stains on their pants, in case there is some sort of mystic message contained therein (There actually is... it's "take a shower and get a life, you sad, fishy-smelling loser"). All this to honour the name of their false idol, Linden Avery, the princess of procrastination, the imperatrix of inaction, the arch-duchess of annoyingness, the sovereign of self-obsession and the baroness of blubbing (to give her her full title).

'Nuff said.

Holy shit, what an awesome post! THOOLAH forever!

Irony, of course, is a topic addressed in The Fallen's signature...

~edit: I see Icarus has also dug deep to find the original post. Good on him!

I see a great difference between a post that is obviously tongue-in-cheek compared with one that isn't.

That is an aspect I had not considered, dlb. There is something to be said about the difference between a thread such as the one that those quotes came from and this thread.

There, the standard is for discourse to be more contentious and polarized between the LA and THOOLAH factions. I wouldn't call it playful (which is what I consider tongue-in-cheek should be), but there is clearly a far different tone than that which is cultivated in this thread, where we are attempting a serious discussion of what we would have asked SRD if he were still taking questions.

Perhaps I ought to have considered those differences before bringing your comments from that venue here.

()

dlbpharmd wrote:I see a great difference between a post that is obviously tongue-in-cheek compared with one that isn't.

Wasn't it?

Anchovies are actually pretty good on a pizza. It's probably a lot like sushi, it seems gross until you try it. Maybe people aren't "opening their hearts to things that smell fishy." But that logic wouldn't apply to people who have not only sampled Donaldson's work, but have been supporting the author and reading his books for decades. I assume that why we're all here, instead of on a Terry Brooks forum. And I think we all know that Donaldson has elevated the fantasy genre to Art.

But there are lots of things that are Art that people can still say, "You know, that's not my thing." Art doesn't automatically mean Objectively Good to Every Human--You Must Agree Or You're Uneducated. People are still allowed (in most places) to have differing opinions on various works of art. I would even be so bold as to claim that Art is subjective, both in evaluating its quality and in choosing its definition.

MJB, I thought your post was well-written, funny, and worth reading. Don't let unfriendliness or judgmental attitudes scare you off or keep you from posting your opinions.

... but watch out for those who seek excuses to call people judgemental, and then do so with verve and relish, to the sound of axes being ground.

Hey, I admit I can be judgmental, especially in the Tank where I think it's more appropriate. And I wouldn't blame anyone for telling a Watch newbie not to let that asshole Zar scare you off from the Tank. But my only axe to grind here is for everyone to be able to voice their opinions without being attacked for those opinions, or told they haven't done the correct research to appreciate the Last Chronicles "properly" (i.e. as only one particular member interprets them). I've probably studied more existentialism than the average Watcher, but you don't see me telling every single person who ventures in here that they must interpret the Chronicles according to my particular education, when all they're doing is listing things they like or dislike. Lurch's perspective is a valuable facet of the overall milieu of Watch participants, but this constant campaign for it to be The One Perspective That You Must Adopt gets really freakin old.

Zarathustra wrote:Lurch's perspective is a valuable facet of the overall milieu of Watch participants, but this constant campaign for it to be The One Perspective That You Must Adopt gets really freakin old.

That is why people should ignore attacks against their opinions, especially about a piece of fine literature. The appropriate response to anyone saying "the only way to interpret The Last Chronicles is x" is to pat them on the head and roll your eyes.

Clearly you guys have never eaten 'Patum Peperium - The gentlemans Relish', an anchovie paste that you spread thinly on hot buttered toast. The closest thing to pure 'umami' you will ever eat and simply one of the most delightfull gustatory experiences known to man.

Hashi, you're right. It might be more mature to ignore. I just kind of felt sorry for MJB and the countless others who were attacked. You know, because I'm a big softie. I think the arrogance of putting one's own low opinions of other people in Donaldson's mouth as if he shares this disdain for a large portion of his own readers probably stoked my indignation a bit, too.

Zarathustra wrote:Anchovies are actually pretty good on a pizza. It's probably a lot like sushi, it seems gross until you try it.

Preach it! Nothing quite nice like a good anchovy and onion pizza... especially on a date! Pucker up!:hnk:

But there are lots of things that are Art that people can still say, "You know, that's not my thing." Art doesn't automatically mean Objectively Good to Every Human--You Must Agree Or You're Uneducated. People are still allowed (in most places) to have differing opinions on various works of art. I would even be so bold as to claim that Art is subjective, both in evaluating its quality and in choosing its definition.

This is something that I feel I'm getting better (and a little worse) at... I can at least understand that one's reading development is different from another... I mean, there was a time when I thought Goosebumps were a mostly fantastic set of books! And never mind that my opinions on authors flip-flop all the time (as an example, in older posts I have criticized Hemingway as being a lazy writer and then within the past couple years praised that same minimalist technique from the same author and book I was thinking about!)

And even though I no longer consider Donaldson to be the modern source of all literary goodness (that's John Crowley ), it is hard to discuss this particular book with folks who hold such an opposing opinion of it... so I don't. I turn a little mean at this point. Once I've calmed down from the experience, maybe... but I'm just too close to it right now.

Orlion wrote:

Zarathustra wrote:Anchovies are actually pretty good on a pizza. It's probably a lot like sushi, it seems gross until you try it.

Preach it! Nothing quite nice like a good anchovy and onion pizza... especially on a date! Pucker up!:hnk:

I might have to try it. I had anchovy exactly once that I recall...way long ago in teens...I remember only a mild fishy with overwhelming salt taste and a bad texture.
I hate salty mostly, and some textures bug me...but this Preaching and Up-puckering and peter's post on patum peperium pique curiousity, persuade me to perhaps partake a possible palatable, perchance pleasurable, prandium. [though I perceive a paucity of pickled peppers and pipers, despite peter's piquant presentation ]

I've (unusually for me) been lost for words at two or three of the posts over the last couple of pages within this thread. All I can do is whisper "holy crap!" and...



...and yes, they really have been worth a double.

I'm glad that someone at least picked up on my sig quote...

Well, while I appreciate that you are glad I read and plugged your "irony" quote, I too am doing a facepalm at how much thread drift Wayfriend and I have caused.

I'm just waiting to see how many more anchovy pizza posts we get before splitting that off to Menolly.

dlbpharmd wrote:I'm just waiting to see how many more anchovy pizza posts we get before splitting that off to Menolly.

Are any and all anchovy
pizza posts to be parsed
as ancillary, auxilliary, or addenda
to inquiries into if's and interviews?
irrelevant, or inappropriate?
In whose illimitable eyes?
To be plucked, post-haste, re-purposed to
subordinate positions, or sub-foral sequestration?

Oh, Moon, mistake me not!
Better Menolly's magisterial demesne,
where there be dragons
than to ever drag on in some
dire miasma of mean mumbling and
moribund muckraking.

We catch you in particularly whimsical frame of mind at present V. Still, there's nothing like a good fermented anchovie for planting ones feet firmly back on terra-firma.

[I'm reminded of the old joke.........no...... thus does our newly PC world stifle laughter in it's cradle!]

nice guy peter wrote:[I'm reminded of the old joke.........no...... thus does our newly PC world stifle laughter in it's cradle!]

Presumably the one that goes "What's the smelliest thing in the world? An anchovy's butt."

Some of us proudly have no scruples...

Firmly dragging this thread kicking and screaming back onto topic, I'd ask SRD if he likes anchovies. I suspect with a heavy heart that his answer would be an assertive "yes".

Zarathustra wrote:Hashi, you're right. It might be more mature to ignore. I just kind of felt sorry for MJB and the countless others who were attacked. You know, because I'm a big softie. I think the arrogance of putting one's own low opinions of other people in Donaldson's mouth as if he shares this disdain for a large portion of his own readers probably stoked my indignation a bit, too.

but no need to feel sorry. There was no value to lurch's comments unless he happened to SRD, one of his children, or his significant other. Otherwise it was just random words strung together, and fairly laughable in its pomposity and "I own the only valid palantir to gaze upon SRD. Whatever, Sour-on

Look, we all have things we like and dislike in SRD. In fact, if one has absolutely nothing to critique then I would go so far as to say one lack "appreciation of the Art" (loved the caps btw).

And clearly some of that stuff I would softball, ignore, or focus better were I writing SRD directly. His time has value after all.

TheFallen - you could read *that* joke on the back of a cornflake packet compared to mine [but having said that It's absolutely the kind of immature humor that scores a direct hit with me and I can't wait to see how it goes down tomorrow after church as we enjoy our coffe and biscuits.]

Of course SRD would like anchovies - after all that dried fruit and cheese in the Chrons he's got to be gagging for a bit of decomposing fish. Whats not to like?