Kevin's Watch

Now I know we have topics galore concerning Thomas Covenant's rape of Lena, and I know that these topics are often very controversial, but please bare with me.

I have been re-reading The Gap, and as I made my way through Forbidden Knowledge, I noticed that all SRD's key works, these being The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, The Gap, and Mordant's Need, all contain some sort of sexual violence. Not only that, but the violence is often, whilst not as crucial as leprosy or unbelief or other things, still quite important.

In TCTC we have the rape of Lena, which is one of the defining moments of the entire six books. This act has consequences that reach throughout both chronicles, and it affects the key protaganist deeply.

In The Gap series we have Angus' treatment of Morn Hyland, and then Morn's false seduction of Nick Succorso, then Nick's violence towards Morn, together with Orn Vorbuld, Angus' child sexual abuse, the woman who cuts off her breasts in Billingate, and many more.

In Mordant's Need we have Eremis' treatment of Teresa as well as Gilbur's possible use of Nyle.

So where am I going with this? I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts/feelings/opinions on this. Did SRD purposely include sexual violence, or was it merely coincidence? Could the works have stood without the inclusion of sexual violence? How does whether a character uses sexual violence or not affect how we see them? What about how they use said violence? Do you think SRD's use of sexual violence says something about our society? I'm not sure if I actually need the answer to these or any other questions, I was just intrigued by the issue during the re-read and thought it would make compelling discussion.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Stephen King's works have a lot of sexual aggression in them. I think that the intimate nature of sexual intercourse causes us to become more deeply interested in the characters because we can all relate to anything sexual whether it be fondling, rape, molestation, or just kinky sex. We can say, that would be horrible if we have been lucky in life and haven't been emotionally scarred by someone's attack. We can think about the aggressor if we have and perhaps take solace in the fact that they may suffer guilt. All in all, its simply something we all share in common and something which can be easily controversial and it makes for a more exciting read.

Personally, I found Eremis to be far more creepy because of his deviant behavior. And I can't imagine a Thomas Covenant without the rape. The irony that he sired the high lord & desires her causes great intrigue. I wouldn't have it any other way. I just wish that Lena was a little older. It's already bad that she was raped, but she was so young. It just made it worse. Part of the charm of "the Land" was its innocence. So taking it away from someone who probably didn't give all that much thought to sex in the first place seemed a bit heavy-handed. Now, if she were 18...

I think It builds the Love Hate relationship a lot sooner and a lot stronger.
Personally I had to go back and highlight the Lena scene because every 20 or 30 pages after that I just couldn't believe it actually was there. I must have read it at least 40 times, and it still strikes a nerve each time. But the more developed TC became I began to look at the scene differently each time.

Hmmm... it never really bothered me that much. I thought of it as just part of the story. Although, it did make it more interesting.

One of the best parts of the Thomas Covenant saga is that the Unbeliever is a fallible human. Other stories have their hero as a near perfect icon of goodness, which in my opinion makes the character much more difficult to identify with.

This reminds me of people who talk during movies. They'll say something like, I would never do that, or, how come they didn't do this. They make fun of the guy that shoots himself in the foot or cuts himself from a fall. They'll say, that was stupid! I always respond with something like, you can't know what you would do until you are in the same situation. If someone has a gun pointed at you, all that stuff about what you would like to do is thrown out the window. I think that I would react better than most people because I have had a gun pointed at me & I did react well at that time. But others might not do so well, probably especially those that mock movies and characters and like to suggest what they would do; because in my mind they are the ones furthest away from reality. Their reality is wake up, go to work, come home, maybe go to a bar, etc. But rarely, if ever, do these people have to confront a dangerous situation, so in fact they have no idea at all how they would react.

All this to say that if I had leprosy, lost my ability to have an erection, was placed into a land of madness and miracles, I don't know how I would react and neither do you. So the raping of Lena sounds terrible to the person who doesn't even really begin to think about it, but to someone who understands extreme situations can result in extreme behavior, I'd say that there's a fair chance that I'd have done the same thing if I had to undergo the same life difficulties that Thomas faced. The most important part of all this is that Thomas was almost sure he was dreaming in a coma in a hospital in his own world as a result of a traffic accident. So at that time, he felt that his actions had no bearing at all & no real or lasting effect on anyone.

I think that it makes his character have a great deal more depth than there would be without the sexual encounter.

There's even more sexual violence in The Man Who Killed His Brother. I'd say it's worse than what happened to Morn and Lena put together, though it doesn't exactly occur "on scene."

I'm not sure what it all means. It's hard to imagine that SRD has this subject in all of his major works coincidentally. I'd guess it's a subject that's very important to him. It would be a good question to ask at the next Con or Elohimfest.

It is what it is. If it were not for the sexual violence, none of the mentioned stories would have turned out the way they did. I hope that the story of my life won't include any of that stuff, but in these stories, it's an essential part of understanding the way the characters think and act. It is certainly not a coincidence. It's not something I like, but then again, I didn't want Theodin to die, either. But, sooner or later, everybody dies. And in SRD books, sooner or later, somebody gets to be a victim of violence or rape. Like it or not, it's part of our everyday life, and the art of SRD reflects our lives in many ways.


And Gibur definitely did "use" Nile.

Master Gilbur freaks me out the most-compared 2 him Angus is a choir boy!

danlo wrote:Master Gilbur freaks me out the most-compared 2 him Angus is a choir boy!

Which means Gilbur must want him really bad.....

Actually, I don't believe in any form of pre-marital sex, including rape. That's how I got my name. actually.

Zephalephelah wrote:Personally, I found Eremis to be far more creepy because of his deviant behavior.

I totally agree. Even though the sex in Mordant's Need was far less violent than TCTC or The Gap, I found both Eremis and Gilbur far more revolting than I ever found Angus or Nick or TC. Although, These three all used sexual violece in context. With Angus it was escaping the crib. With Nick it was his desire to never be beaten by a woman again. And TC had leprosy and impotence. Eremis on the other hand seemed to just enjoy it.

Zephalephelah wrote:I just wish that Lena was a little older. It's already bad that she was raped, but she was so young. It just made it worse. Part of the charm of "the Land" was its innocence. So taking it away from someone who probably didn't give all that much thought to sex in the first place seemed a bit heavy-handed. Now, if she were 18...

Once again, even though I personally think all rape is disgusting, I understand and, in a way, agree. It's like how child abuse is more disgusting. I think it has to do with the resources the victim has. At the age she was, Lena simply didn't have the resources to understand why might do this to her. Not in the way someone Atiaran's age might.

Sum sui generis
Vs

That's cool, Zwph. Incredibly random, but cool.

Sum sui generis
Vs

Just trying to make ya laugh

oh zeph!! thats a really awful av!! every time I see it .. i have this urge to scream "NO KITTY DONT DO IT"



however on another note this is a very interesting discussion .. i have to agree with syl. that it cant be a coincidence that sexual violence takes such a prominant place in SRD's writings .. maybe because it is one thing that truly weakens us as humans .. to exercise power and control over others is made all the more visceral in the form of sexual violence ..

coersion .. compulsion .. exercising unjust dominion over others ..

what keener way to depict this woeful state than in the way of sexual violence ..

Angus was guilty of exercising this kind of control over Morn .. Morn was guilty of exercising sexual power to manipulate Nick .. Eremis over Teresa etc..

its like the extreme in indefensible injustices .. the readers reaction is usually to revile the perpetrator of such methods ..

well no i guess at the end of the day .. i personally am not sure why this is a prevalent theme in SRD's work .. It isnt the dominant theme in TCTC .. though it is moreso in the Gap .. and Mordants Need.

Skyweir wrote:It isnt the dominant theme in TCTC .. though it is moreso in the Gap .. and Mordants Need.

But without the one act of sexual violence in TCTC, much of the story would fall apart.

Sum sui generis
Vs

The sexual violence does also show in his short-stories. For instance in "The Kings of Tarshish Shall Bring Gifts"...

Stephen R. Donaldson wrote:Well, "rape" is obviously a theme of mine. It's an apt metaphor for evil. Given enough time (and the inclination, which I lack), I could argue that virtually any act that might plausibly be called evil can be described as a form of rape.

Any act deemed evil a form of rape. What do we all think?

Sum sui generis
Vs

This recent re-reading I had of Lord Foul's Bane, the only thing that came to my mind when I read about the rape was "Ignorance".

Rape is a horrible act, really no words can define it or give it justice. It has been awhile since I read "the Gap" Series. I wasn't aware however the sexual violence was a recurring theme in many of SRD's books.

I've often thought about why he (SRD) made TC rape her. When I was young I felt an instant revulsion when I read the book for the first time cursing TC for his stupidity. But not now. I muse that perhaps the rape was essentially a plot device. It was a way to cement in the readers mind that the protagonist did indeed have "issues". It also ensured that the reader would not try and personify themselves too closely with TC. TC gets verbally abused many times in LFB. He is insulted in Soaring Woodhelven with distrust and handled rather roughly for example. If the reader felt too closely tied to TC they could conceivably take personal offense at many of these narrative junctions. At one point Quaan the Warmark threatens to break both of TC's arms if he continued speaking.

I think however the issue of rape cannot be understood, like many of life's tragedies unless you have somehow felt the pain involved. The same could be said of leprosy. It should be no surprise that the main character of the series is a leper because of of SRD's background.

Stephen R. Donaldson was born in Cleveland on May 13, 1947 to James R. Donaldson, a medical missionary, and Mary Ruth Reeder, a prosthetist. From the age of four to sixteen, he lived in India where his father worked with lepers.

(taken from:)speccoll.library.kent.edu/literature/pr ... n/bio.html

However sexual rape and violence would not be so readily documented, in any context with regards to the author, SRD.

In order to understand the first thing about rape you must dismiss a common misconception.

Rape is not a sexual act.
Rape is an act of power and violence.

Power of the perpetrator over the victim. It's a well documented fact. With this forebearence in mind it's impossible to excuse Covenant for his actions by rationalizing that the actions took place as a result of a sudden recindence of impotency. The very implication of sexual function or ability has no meaning when the true definition of rape is taken into account.

You could argue that the rape was therefore commited because the nature of TC's existence was leprosy and that leprosy is essentially a curse of inability. Helplessness. A loss of control on many levels. Rape is a means of power and control. You could argue that this need for control was what was paramount and the driving force behind TC's psyche the instant he began to rape Lena. He needed an instant measure of control, any control when faced with the limitless possibilities and verdency of "the Land".

When I was younger I was sure that the series could have been written without the rape inserted. Now older I see the gloaming of Lena's family tree all stemming from that one sad act. Atiarian Trell-mate summoned Hile Troy as a result (and died), Trell Gravelingas invoked the Ritual of Desecration wrought from his personal despair as a result, High Lord Elena was born to Lena as a result and the list goes on and on.

Perhaps SRD wrote the rape in also to clarify the wretched state of Thomas Covenant's being. He knew perhaps the fact of reading on paper that TC was a Leper just would not carry any emotional depth to the new reader. People react strongly to situations or issues they can relate to in some form or shape or even to issues they have some idea about. How many forms of media can we see in any part of the world that we can turn to at the flick of a switch or press of a button that deals with Rape or sexual violence? How many can we say the same for leprosy? Very little of course. Want to get someone's attention at the beginning of a story? Leprosy would seemingly fade even if you perpetually put down on paper the physical and mental horrid conditions of that disease, but rape? Rape invokes very strong emotions as well as an instant mental picture.

Rape is personal anathema to me. If it enters any story line or visual medium / artform it will get my attention.

Could SRD get away with not having the rape in the storyline now? We are all more or less attached to the story the way it is. I don't think I would want it changed regardless of the personal revulsion I feel for the act.

The more I think the more I could post so I'm going to stop my long giantish tales "I am a Giant of Seareach. Make no short songs for me." and end here.