Kevin's Watch

I am not sure where to post this, but here it goes.

Someone mentioned an error in AATE where Linden remembers being touched by Turiya Herem but was actually touched by Samadhi. This is a true editing error and should be fixed in a future edition.

But, it got me wondering. What were all of the things the ravers did. So I mapped it out. I completed the 1st and 2nd chronicles. I will work on the 3rd as time permits.

s1085.photobucket.com/user/tj4242/media/Raversthrough2ndchronicles.jpg.html

Beautiful, tj! Such efforts deserve profuse thanks at the very least.

Wow! Great work!

Yes, very good.

From the chapter "Hold Possession" in WGW we learn (from Linden's sharing of his memories) that moksha was Marid's possessor, was in the bees and was the possessor of the madman with the spider. As the memories she shared don't include the rats or the eels in TOT, we can deduce that these were turiya.

The other significant thing the Ravers did was mislead the Viles, but we're not told which of the Ravers was/were responsible for this. Given that samadhi Sheol was busy corrupting the monarchy of Doriendor Corishev through several generations of rulers, that the misleading of the Viles seems to have occurred at roughly the same time, and that the Viles in FR use plural pronouns to refer to the Ravers, it seems reasonable to conjecture that turiya and moksha were the ones who got at the Viles. This would also be consistent with their subsequent corruption of the Demondim.

DrPaul wrote:Yes, very good.

From the chapter "Hold Possession" in WGW we learn (from Linden's sharing of his memories) that moksha was Marid's possessor, was in the bees and was the possessor of the madman with the spider. As the memories she shared don't include the rats or the eels in TOT, we can deduce that these were turiya.

Good catch. I made the updates

Added some more

i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j427/tj4242/Ravers.jpg

Another small addition. When turiya possesses Yuerquin in TPTP he also kills the Unfettered One - after he kills Quirrel and before he possesses Triock.

The other point that we can only speculate on is who or what was possessing Joan in the early chapters of TWL.

Having raised the issue, my own conjecture is that Joan's possessor in the first chapters of TWL is most likely to have been turiya, but that we can't be sure. To be specific:

1. If moksha had possessed her, Linden would have learned this when she was possessed by moksha in "Hold Possession".

2. Samadhi was busy possessing Gibbon and would not have risked taking time out from this in order to possess Joan, as a non-possessed Gibbon might well have blown the lid on samadhi's corruption of the Clave.

3. Lord Foul could have been Joan's possessor, but would be more likely to delegate the specific task of possessing her to a Raver so that he could continue to act as CiC.

4. If turiya had previous experience possessing Joan, that would fit with him being Joan's longer-term possessor in The Last Chronicles.

However, this is conjecture and we're not in a position to be definite. We know that there are certainly other beings that are capable of possession.

The Creator (old man in the robe) is able to walk around in the real world. And the Creator is outside the arch of time. If Foul or the Ravers could move outside the arch, they don't need to break the arch.

I don't have a guess what possessed Joan, but it was not Foul or the Ravers directly.

To reach out and possess someone isn't the same as walking around.

The Creator is outside the Arch. So all his "powers" are outside, but this doesn't mean his influence isn't felt on the inside.

Ravers and Foul are inside. Their powers of physical destruction are contained to within the Arch. But perhaps there isn't any barrier against influencing someone outside the Arch.

Welcome to the Watch, Gilden-Fire! Why not introduce yourself over in the Summonsing? It's good for a page or two of silliness, anyway.

If Donaldson's notion of "size", which he mentions in the Gradual Interview, is brought into play, then we know that beings from the Land are too "big" to fit into the real world (just as the immortal Time Warden was too big to fit into the resurrected Covenant, or as SWMNBN was too big to fit into the Land without losing her name). But carrying that analogy through implies that they might be able to influence the real word even though they could not fit into it. It's not their whole selves crossing over. And beings from a "larger" realm would be more readily able to influence a smaller realm, I would think. It's like a jar of ants ... you can't get inside and live with them, but you can still mess with them.

tj4242 wrote:Added some more

i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j427/tj4242/Ravers.jpg

Is this the same? Looks like it .. its as unclear sadly.

Is this image available elsewhere. I'd like to have a look if it is. Thanks.

Alas, if they don't put it into The Laborium, we lose it.

I can't find the raver timeline anywhere. You'll have to contact tj4242.

I tried to upload but it kept complaining the size was too big. I kept shrinking it until it uploaded but it might not be readable. System would not let me upload as pdf either.

I put th pdf and original visio here
https://1drv.ms/f/s!ApBI-5q-uCfSr6cLTQ8gbS_NvOz_-A