Kevin's Watch

Has anyone seen this film? A lady who I work with saw it and was not best pleased with it - but not because it was a bad film . Her gripe was that the film did not meet her understanding of the Noah story as presented in her [Roman Catholic] Bible. From what I can gather, the film seems to go into the story as portrayed in 'The Book of Enoch' [ie it brings in the story of the Grigori {aka the Watchers} and the Nephilim etc] rather than a straight presentation of the biblical tale. A further complaint she had was that the film was very 'dark', although she did aknowledge that Russell Crowe was very good [if a little 'rougher' than his biblical counterpart.

I must say that nothing she said actually caused me to think the film would cause me a problem - but as I say, I just didn't get out of her whether she thought the film was any good or not. I seriously don't think she actually got that far herself; I think she could not get beyond her religious expectations and as such could not judge the film on the basis of it's entertainment value or otherwise.

Still - I want to see it.

I want to see it, just havent got around to it yet. I'm almost 100% sure that the story of Noah predates the Roman Catholic bible anyways. It was originally a tale from Babylon called the Epic of Gilgamesh. Maybe if you tell her that she won;t be so hard on it ;D

Absolutely - the 'flood myth' is found in almost every culture in the world, but I think this lady's problem is the darkness I mentioned. Todays christianity is a 'brighter affair' than the christianity of old and the pre-christian Old Testament does not cut much slack toward the kind all loving God of our times. He is a God of vengence and retribution and I'm thinking this film is probably uncompromising in this.

But I love the non-cannological [?] aspects of the Noah story. The Nephilim, Grigori, Watchers, etc and a film depicting all of this is just up my street!

The more you talk about it the more I want to see the movie. Your right, It just sounds as if she's reluctant to enjoy the story because it may simply depict a lost and truly scarier form of her religion. I kind of feel bad for her really, I've never been able to believe in some sort of higher being, but I wouldn't want to anyways if it reduces my life's enjoyment. Sometimes it's the simple things.

I saw it when it first came out and enjoyed it immensely.

It is pretty fantastical... but why not? It's a film about a worldwide flood and a boat that saves all animal life, why not make it a bit fantastical?

It does get somewhat dark... but, then again, why not? I mean, if you're going to make a movie about Noah, it ought to be interesting!

It's got a bunch of Gnostic themes...which is right up my alley!

The recounting of the creation story was profoundly moving. I liked it a lot.

Saw it at last and liked it in spite of it's dark tone. It had some problems for me - the Watchers were 'not right', some of the CGI was well ropey [the flying dove with the olive twig in it's beak] and little Emma Watson somehow lacked the gravitas to pull of her final scene with Noah - but aside from these relatively minor problems it was good.
In it's above mentioned 'tone', the film was entierly in keeping with the Old Testament presentation of the flood myth, which is an unhappy story at best, and the film did not shie away from this. Also the inherent ambiguity of who we should actually support [Noah would have had humanity expunged from the face of the Earth, where Tubal Cain's "We are Men - It is we who decide whether we live or die!" was hitting the right notes for me] is laid out in all it's difficulty and even at the films end how to carve a path through this moral dilema. [Nb Mans bestial and destructive nature was also presented in brutal clarity to sit alongside Cain's argument that we have the right of self-determination, even if we choose to destroy the earth in the process]. There were clear paralells being drawn with the manner in which we ravage our world today and the 'industrial age' that Tubal Cain had spawned [Tubal Cain was supposed to be the first 'smith' of metal who introduced it's uses to mankind] and one wonders what form the [inevitable] Ark that we will use to procure our survival will take.

You couldn't feel happy about it all - but it was good never the less.

[Incidentally - the story adheres strictly to the 'biblical' Noah story where indeed the Watchers are mentioned; it does not however explore the further events [actually previous to 'the Flood'] of the Watchers looking down on the women of the Earth and liking what they saw. The results of that particular 'misalliance' was the Nephilim [the 'Giants' of Gen vs6 ch4], and the expanded version of these events given in the contemporaneous [but not cannononical] Book of Enoch, are not explored - pity I think.]

I still prefer Bill Cosby's take:

Noah: ... and you haven't even looked in the bottom of the ark! No? Who's gonna clean up that mess down there!?

Worst snack of Aronofsky's mental masturbation I ever saw. And I saw a lot of movies, with only maybe 1/3 of them American, in my lifetime.

Hi Peter,

I'd be interested to know what you think about this comparison of scenes between Gladiator and Noah.

I really don't know why Russel Crowe is performing an almost identical set of actions as Noah as he had as Maximus Decimus Meridius, but still find it fascinating all the same.

Don't directors do that though Dura; they see a little bit that they like in one film and then 'snitch it' for their own.

I saw War Horse the other night and Spielberg inserted exactly the same scene between the lad and his [immediately to be shipped of to War] horse as was in The Last of the Mohicans with D D Lewis and the girl behind the waterfall. [Think "I will find you!"]

peter wrote:Don't directors do that though Dura; they see a little bit that they like in one film and then 'snitch it' for their own.

Yeah sure, and that subject could make a whole thread of it's own, (for those types of movie geeks ).

Aronofsky is probably just doing that. Director's are after all the biggest movie geeks around. Only having Russel Crowe act out a similar scene seems to me more than just a homage to Gladiator.
Anyway, this is all something I would never be able to catch at the cinema. It's a DVD thing.

(I'll be looking forward to Ridley Scott's next film, Moses. There just may be a response tucked away in that one too.)

BTW, there's a thing or two I would never have noticed had I not took the time to freeze frame and edit those pictures together. For example, Juba the Numidian burying the the little characters in the sand of the Colosseum at the film's end takes on a meaning I had initially missed.

DF

Thats a serious attention to detail you exhibit Dura!

Post Update

Vizidor wrote:Hi Peter,

I'd be interested to know what you think about this comparison of scenes between Gladiator and Noah.

I really don't know why Russel Crowe is performing an almost identical set of actions as Noah as he had as Maximus Decimus Meridius, but still find it fascinating all the same.

Vizidor wrote:

peter wrote:Don't directors do that though Vizidor; they see a little bit that they like in one film and then 'snitch it' for their own.

(I'll be looking forward to Ridley Scott's next film, Moses. There just may be a response tucked away in that one too.)

This is really quite interesting.
When I made the above posts a while back they were only speculations. To be honest, I never really believed that the film Exodus: Gods and Kings, would have anything I could follow up on. So you could imagine my surprise.



The three frames show Ramses at the crossroads to the Red Sea.
He sees a straw doll left lying on the ground.
Now what this means is anyone's guess, and I'd be grateful for any suggestions.

It's also interesting to note that Ridley Scott's upcoming film the Martian, will be using some of the same locations as Exodus. The rugged landscape has a planet Mars quality to it, and with the right treatment of red filters and such like, it should look really good.

Wow - I love that! [Enough to make me want to see all three films back-to-back just to spot them in situ!]

Straw dolls have deep pagan significance where I come from which I think is crowding my thinking on this [since it would seem innapropriate to have a symbol of this type in this particular film]; but I'm massively keen to hear any thoughts that come to light on this, what just can't be coincidence - and will be searching out a copy of 'Exodus' asap.

How great Vizidor - ten out of ten!

At first I thought the object to be an ankh. It certainly was ankh-shaped. But when I switched on the audio commentary for that particular sequence, Mr.Scott said it was a straw doll.
Now I know those objects have deep pagan significance, I will now be off down that road to learn more. Thanks for that.

Which only leaves me to say, I'm now aprehensively looking forward to seeing his next film, The Martian.

btw. Hoping this wont be a spoiler for you, but there's one more interesting thing in Exodus: Gods and Kings, a sequence late in the film which shows Moses in back of a covered wagon with the Ark of the Covenant. A nice touch!

cheers

Cheers Vizidor - it's the kind of fun stuff that 'floats my boat'.

[No worries about the 'spoiler' - I know the story already ]