Kevin's Watch

Until the film of the event comes out, this thread is for takeaways from the discussion. I had three:



SRD stated that just that week he had submitted a fantasy novella to his publisher.

SWMNBN was

Spoiler

not in origin a wronged female character mentioned earlier in the Chronicles, rather it existed before the Arch of Time and was trapped along with Lord Foul. The key phrase to her origin was in LFB, I'm paraphrasing but it was something along the lines of other banes being trapped in Mount Thunder. He made every wronged female character he could think of be a part of the creature.

The Creator

Spoiler

was not in the Last Chronicles because he was able to "step away" from his creation and allow TC, Linden and Jeremiah take care of things.

Feel free to add your own recollections or correct any misunderstandings of mine. Please use spoilers if appropriate.

IIRC, Rob's question prompted SRD to say that he had only three "voices" when he wrote dialog: Covenant, Giants, and the Lords who were in between those two.

Frostheart's question prompted SRD to say that the Swordmainnir of the Last Chronicle's were not as well developed as earlier Giant characters because he needed a large fighting force but didn't have enough room in the story to give so many Giants a detailed backstory.

Creator snuck in three questions for one, I think. SRD agreed that when SWMNBN "bitchslapped" Lord Foul, it might indeed provoke laughter, because sometimes laughter comes not from humor but from surprise and relief.

Yes, the Creator stepped away in the Last Chronicles, but I had thought SRD implied that the Creator had "handed over" to Covenant (and Linden and Jeremiah, I guess) responsibility for the Land. No?

I think the hugest thing, however, was SRD's admission, with a bit of trepidation at what his wife might think of making it known, that he had labored the whole time he wrote with the dread that his life would be over when he finished. And I think he meant that in a very final, mortal sense.

Agreed about your last point, Way. I got the same impression when he said that -- like he thought his life would be over at the same time his life's work was done.

Re the Creator's non-appearance (edited to add spoiler tags):

Spoiler

Maybe I was off in my own little fantasy land, but the impression I got was that the Creator didn't show up because Covenant, Linden, and Jeremiah *were* in a sense the creators of the Land. Just as Covenant had to embrace Foul as a facet of himself, he also had to accept the responsibility for his part in the Land's creation. Which would give a fuller answer to the paradox of the necessity of freedom, wouldn't it? Damn....

aliantha wrote:Re the Creator's non-appearance: Maybe I was off in my own little fantasy land, but the impression I got was that the Creator didn't show up because Covenant, Linden, and Jeremiah *were* in a sense the creators of the Land. Just as Covenant had to embrace Foul as a facet of himself, he also had to accept the responsibility for his part in the Land's creation.

That's the only interpretation here which would be the "Mother of all Spoilers," as SRD claimed (if he wasn't at the time deriving malicious pleasure in thwarting our expectations, as he admitted to doing in the GI). The answer to that question would then spoil the end of TLD, which would certainly be the biggest spoiler of all (if SRD hadn't spoiled it himself long ago).

Which would give a fuller answer to the paradox of the necessity of freedom, wouldn't it? Damn....

Interesting. Our freedom to destroy is necessary to our freedom to create, so the Creator can't simply overrule or master the Despiser. We must exercise our freewill (wild magic) to mediate between them, integrating both their strengths. And our world is one which we don't create alone, but instead we are co-Creators (and co-Despisers). Something like that?

I'm still murky on why that would necessitate the Creator to stay out of his Creation, if the Despiser can exist there. Also, if Covenant and Co. are forms of the Creator, then doesn't that mean he *can* go there, not merely use surrogates?

Did SRD talk about surrealistic armpits as Art at the dinner? If so, I hope no one had to do a taste test of various armpits to gain perspective.

(Shouldn't this thread be in the TLD forum?)

The answer to that question would then spoil the end of TLD, which would certainly be the biggest spoiler of all (if SRD hadn't spoiled it himself long ago).

I asked him about the fact that he spoiled the ending of TLD 2 decades ago. He said he doesn't regret doing so.

dlbpharmd wrote:(Shouldn't this thread be in the TLD forum?)

Absolutely. This thread has some nasty spoilers already.

dlbpharmd wrote:I asked him about the fact that he spoiled the ending of TLD 2 decades ago. He said he doesn't regret doing so.

I don't regret his having done so! As he said, the journey to that end was what we all have looked forward to.

I also think that, 2 decades ago, he didn't think he would ever write the Last C's. On that basis, there is no cause for regret - it wasn't a bad decision at the time.

Tagged my spoiler. Sorry...

I asked also about his knowledge of Estonian mythology, since the similarities are striking. (Heroic, comely, seafaring Giants who build grand stone structures and help human inhabitants in times of distress... Kalevipoeg the son of a Finnish giant journeying to the end of the world with a wooden giantship crewed by kith and kin...now where have I seen these before...) He told it was a coincidence. To my understanding, he did however nod to the points I made about Norse legends, for instance the Worm/Jörmungandr and Last Dark/Ragnarökkr parallels.

And this. (Now that's a backstory scrap!)

Did anyone ask or comment about their dissatisfaction with the Last Chronicles? He wrote previously recognizing how difficult the story would be to write, which was a large part of why he delayed writing it for so long. Did he talk about whether he succeeded or failed (in his own opinion) in writing the story as well as he imagined it / wanted to?

believer...the most he said on the topic was that he felt he could of done a bit better in a couple of situations in TLD..He compared " a bit better" to closing a window. He felt he didn't quite close the window in the Foul Slap Down scene at the end..and the other..i don't recall anybody asking what the other was..In any case, I don't remember him saying what the other was.

I told him that I certainly thought he pegged the meter, succeeded, with the LC and TLD and then he, without a word.... promptly grabbed his belongings and left the room. He is a very private person.

I believe the other one

Spoiler

was the final absorption of Lord Foul into Covenant

. That he could have done that particular part of the final scene better.

I tried to ask him about it. But I am cursed: SRD never hears the same question that I try to say. I asked him why the ending of the Last Chronicles was so very different than the others. He chose to answer by explaining why the final resolution had to be different in each Chronicles.

But no one asked why the Last Chronicles sucked, if that's what you mean.

rdhopeca wrote:I believe the other one

Spoiler

was the final absorption of Lord Foul into Covenant

. That he could have done that particular part of the final scene better.

TC could have turned into a zombie. Maybe Foul had The Zombie Stone among the other 'banes' he dug up? In the final battle, TC and company could have been faced with the terrible power of The Zombie Stone unleashed! Then, as they all struggle against it and hope begins to fade, TC realises he must give in to it! he hears a gentle voice saying, 'Let go, Luke.' So, he lets go and is a zombie, but he retains his essence because he *is* the white gold! He realises that to win, he must lose, so in zombie form, he shuffles forward and moans, 'braaaaaaaaaaaains' and proceeds to eat Foul's braaaaaaaaaaaaains! In this way, he takes Foul into himself! Joy, after all, is between the ears that hear. If they ever make a movie version of this, I certainly hope Peter Jackson is on it; he will do something this great or probably better!

Everyone has a right to free speech, and anyone who bought the book has a right to say if it sucked or not. However, I'm glad that no one (yet) has chosen to do so at any E'fest. My impression is that SRD doesn't take kindly to such criticism, and I would fear that he wouldn't come back to any future meetings if any such unpleasant confrontation occured.

Ananda wrote:

rdhopeca wrote:I believe the other one

Spoiler

was the final absorption of Lord Foul into Covenant

. That he could have done that particular part of the final scene better.

TC could have turned into a zombie. Maybe Foul had The Zombie Stone among the other 'banes' he dug up? In the final battle, TC and company could have been faced with the terrible power of The Zombie Stone unleashed! Then, as they all struggle against it and hope begins to fade, TC realises he must give in to it! he hears a gentle voice saying, 'Let go, Luke.' So, he lets go and is a zombie, but he retains his essence because he *is* the white gold! He realises that to win, he must lose, so in zombie form, he shuffles forward and moans, 'braaaaaaaaaaaains' and proceeds to eat Foul's braaaaaaaaaaaaains! In this way, he takes Foul into himself! Joy, after all, is between the ears that hear. If they ever make a movie version of this, I certainly hope Peter Jackson is on it; he will do something this great or probably better!

I think *you* need to write this.

The moment that didn't work for me in TLD that meant most to me was the absorption of Foul into Covenant. I thought they would meld more into a single entity, but it's more like Covenant is containing Foul, which wasn't what I imagined, and I don't see it as the culmination of 'Covenant beats Foul, Covenant accepts Foul, Covenant becomes Foul'

Oh well. I'm going to have to figure out if I continue revisiting the series every 5 years or so.

Believer, consider the perspective that "Covenant becomes Foul" involves more than that absorption scene near the end. It also can be thought to have been a theme woven into the story on several occasions prior. This is the whole "Can good be accomplished through evil means?" skein, which includes both the death of Joan and the events in the Cavewight pueblo, among other scenes.

While SRD has a tendency to dodge the direct question he is asked I was delighted with his answer to my question. Danlo called it the 'dumb question', as in the 'what are you working on now?', but my question went something like this (accompanied by a lot of hand-waving ):

I have noticed in your interviews since you completed The Last Dark that you seem more open and relaxed. Do you feel that some weight of responsibility has been lifted from your shoulders with the completion of the series? And (if there is one) what impact has that change had?

His answer was to say that the difference finishing the Chronicles has made is in how he wrote his new fantasy 'novelette' (which was a lovely surprise, as most of us had no idea that he was working on anything new, never mind a fantasy story). He said that for the first time in his life he started a story that he didn't know the ending to. I was chuffed with this answer because I felt that it chimed with what I had been picking up from his interviews.

u.