It's getting harder to find the correct place to post.

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:20 pm

Guys, what the hell are you talking about?

Murrin, what do you mean by saying the sub-forums don't work? Looks like they work just fine to me.

If we merge 1st, 2nd and Last Chronicles into 1 forum, it will be absolutely huge, with close to 3200 topics and 80,000 posts. No one will be able to find anything, and I guaran-damn-tee that people will bitch about that.

I can't believe that all of this craziness came from me pointing out that there were TLD spoilers in a thread in GenSRD (that's my job, btw, as TLD mod.) If GenSRD had active mods, I could've had the thread moved to TLD forum (an open forum) quickly, and spared this insanity.

edit to add (didn't see this at the bottom of the previous page):

Now that the full series is out in mass market, I don't think there's a real need to keep the Last Chrons as separate books for the few people who are mid-series. Keep the 1st & 2nd Chrons and add a combined Last Chrons, leave it at that.

If you must make this change, do this.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:54 pm

dlb, subforums are supposed to be attached to an active top level forum, but with the way this particular software and the subforum mod we're using works, if we allowed posting in the top level "Last Chronicles" forum, it wouldn't display an indicator icon to show when there are new posts in that top forum, making it so people will miss posts in there because they're never highlighted on the index.

Post by **aliantha** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:59 pm

Okay, wait. No way would I want all the TC forums combined into a single forum. There would be no way, then, to spoiler stuff for people just coming to the Chrons for the first time.

I thought we were talking about a separate sub-forum for the Full Chrons. That, I would be in favor of.

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:17 pm

I'm Murrin wrote:dlb, subforums are supposed to be attached to an active top level forum, but with the way this particular software and the subforum mod we're using works, if we allowed posting in the top level "Last Chronicles" forum, it wouldn't display an indicator icon to show when there are new posts in that top forum, making it so people will miss posts in there because they're never highlighted on the index.

Again, I don't understand what you mean. I know that you understand the software far more than I do, so I'm struggling to get my mind around the major issues here. The way that the index is organized now, when I log in, I can easily see if there are any new posts in any of the sub-forums located in TLC. As far as I can tell, the highlighting works just fine.

Okay, wait. No way would I want all the TC forums combined into a single forum. There would be no way, then, to spoiler stuff for people just coming to the Chrons for the first time.

I thought we were talking about a separate sub-forum for the Full Chrons. That, I would be in favor of.

Apparently, no one cares about spoilers any longer. Thanks for helping to point that out.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:41 pm

Subforums icons work. But the big icon beside the Last Chronicles Forum will not light up if someone posts in there. (The Last Chronicles forum is a separate forum from the subforums; it's just locked.)

Whoever made the subforum mod we're using (phpBB2 doesn't support subforums natively) included a switch to a new icon on the main page with a little + sign added to it when a forum has subforums, but didn't bother coding it so it still can light up orange like the other forums.

Post by **wayfriend** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:36 pm

aliantha wrote:I thought we were talking about a separate sub-forum for the Full Chrons. That, I would be in favor of.

Right. (Well, forum or sub-forum, but whatever.)

Let me 'splain - wait, there is no time. Let me summarize:

The only place we have right now to discuss issues spanning the entire 10 books, without worrying about spoilers, is the TLD forum. Which is seeming more and more awkward as time goes on - it's a forum about the specific book, really.

(The book by book forums are nice while you're in the middle of the series. Which we all were for nine years. Their worth is not disputed. Keep 'em, I say.

So that's the thing we need: a place to discuss issues which span the entire series, but aren't really about the events of TLD specifically.

You can call it the "All the Chronicles" forum, or "The Last Chronicles" forum, it doesn't matter to me, because it doesn't really change the purpose of it. (Because it goes without saying that you can discuss things from all the Chronicles in a forum about the Last Chronicles.)

The Current First-Plus-Second forum should be left as is, as far as I am concerned. Because there are a sufficient number of people who are in that position, and don't want spoilers. Maybe I am wrong. And Probably in ten years it will be irrelevant.

And that's why I suggested a new forum, and back similar proposals.

DLB, I care about spoilers. Not for me. But I can sympathize with others.
So I want to leave the First-Plus-Second forum alone. I don't think anyone proposed otherwise.

Murrin, maybe the book-by-book forums are not as necessary for as many people as they used to be, but I think they are a good way to treat new fans nicely, and, since it takes no work to change them, let's be lazy but nice.

Savor dam, I see you agree with just about all of that.

I hope that confuses the issue.

Post by **Vraith** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:44 pm

aliantha wrote: I thought we were talking about a separate sub-forum for the Full Chrons. That, I would be in favor of.

That is what I thought we were talking about, too [apparently WF thought something similar as well...]

Which is why I suggested [not literally, but something like] the title "Total Chronicles, Totally Nude Spoilers" or whatever it was I said.

Post by **Avatar** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:33 am

That's what we are talking about.

I wasn't going to make it a sub-forum though, but a top level forum sorta like WF's mock-up. (Which does not involve renaming anything.

)

I dunno how this got so complicated.

--A

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:09 am

Well, I'll reiterate that I think it's a bad idea because adding a new "all Chronicles" forum makes it even less clear where you should post things. Unless you intend for the 1st & 2nd Chrons forum to be dead except for the very occasional new person who hasn't read the last series yet.

Post by **wayfriend** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:03 pm

.... which is as good a reason as any to call the new [sub]forum "The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant". Then where to post things is abundantly clear.

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:05 pm

I dunno how this got so complicated.

It's because we're following the phrase, "if something isn't broken, fix it until it is."

Post by **aliantha** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:16 pm

No, c'mon, you guys.

The original intent was to have a place that's spoiler-free, where everybody on the Watch who has read all ten books (which is the vast majority of us, I think) can talk about overarching themes, and stuff that came clear in the last book that sheds light on stuff in the first books, and so on.

I'll be honest. I avoid the Last Chrons forum because so many of the folks in there have been hating on the last four books. I think there's some value to be had -- quite a bit of value, actually -- in looking at the series as a whole. But I don't want to have to dodge people who think the last four books suck. If that makes me a fangirl, so be it -- I'll wear the label proudly. But that's a big reason why I've been supportive of a separate forum to discuss the series as a whole.

Now, as to the name: Calling the new forum "The Last Chronicles" would be dumb, IMHO, because we've already got one of those for each of the last four books. I'd suggest "The Full Chronicles" or "The Full Chronicles Experience" or something along those lines -- something to differentiate it from the forum for the final series.

And if we could make it a rule that Last Chrons haters ought to either stay out of the new forum, or keep their pieholes shut about how much they think the last few books sucked, that would be even better.

And I'll mod the damn thing, if you want.

Post by **Avatar** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:29 pm

dlbpharmd wrote:It's because we're following the phrase, "if something isn't broken, fix it until it is."

I love that DLB.

Anyway, I'm with Ali, except all opinions on the Chrons, positive and negative, will be allowed.

--A

Post by **Avatar** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:20 am

So we doing this?

--A

Post by **aliantha** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:32 pm

I dunno, Av. I thought you were in charge.

Post by **Avatar** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:36 am

We try to govern by consensus insofar as possible.

--A

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:53 am

Posting here because I mentioned this:

I'm Murrin wrote:Subforums icons work. But the big icon beside the Last Chronicles Forum will not light up if someone posts in there. (The Last Chronicles forum is a separate forum from the subforums; it's just locked.)

Whoever made the subforum mod we're using (phpBB2 doesn't support subforums natively) included a switch to a new icon on the main page with a little + sign added to it when a forum has subforums, but didn't bother coding it so it still can light up orange like the other forums.

Because it occured to me that it would actually be incredibly simple to fix this problem. All you need to do is open the file for the Index, find the bit of code that controls display of these:

, and replace the subforum mod code that changes them to this:

with the original unmodified code.

If that was done, the default white/orange icons for new posts should work for the top level forums that have subforums. Which would allow us to do things like unlock the main Last Chronicles forum, and turn other top level forums into subforums of more active ones, without losing the ability to tell if someone's posted in the top level one.

Post by **kevinswatch** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:37 pm

Avatar wrote:(WF, the only reason we don't have a One Tree forum etc. is cause Jay didn't think ahead. And when we realised we shoulda, it was too late, and the 1st & 2nd Chrons discussion was too intertwined to break up.)

Hey!

I'm still here! (Kinda, sorta, not really)

I agree with the people suggesting a spoiler-allowed discussion of the entire Chronicles as a whole.

At this point I have little sympathy for having people avoid spoilers. If I've had enough time to read the Last Dark, then EVERYONE who wanted to read it at this point should have been able to.

-jay

Post by **kevinswatch** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:08 pm

Ok, after reading over this thread twice, here is what I feel best describes the problem, as well as what I think is the best solution:

-There is a desire to discuss the over-arching themes of the Entire Chronicles.

-There is currently no place to do that. You can't post spoilers for the Last Chronicles in the First and Second Chronicles. And the Last Chronicles forums are very much book specific.

-The best solution I believe is to create a new Entire Chronicles forum, as ali suggests.

-While this diminishes the purpose of the First and Second Chronicles forum, I believe that is fine for now. It doesn't hurt to leave it as a separate forum. At a certain point in time, if we agree that it is pointless to keep a "spoiler-free" forum, then perhaps we can merge the new Entire Chronicles forum with the First and Second Chronicles forum.

-I also think it's fine to leave the separate Last Chronicles book forums as they are, since as some people have said, it would be silly to go through the effort to combine them. They're recent enough that people may still want a place to discuss individual books.

I'm going for it.

-jay

Post by **aliantha** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:16 pm

Bless you, Jay. All hail!

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

It's getting harder to find the correct place to post.