Kevin's Watch

Really, really really quiet.

*pin drops*

Hi Ms. Mary, we had some conversations about this at the E'fest. There should be a thread starting shortly in Gen. Disc. about it. There was a distinct sadness at the steady decline in activity on the forum. Along with that there was an emerging recognition that the Watch may be in transition. This had a more positive feeling to it, as it is obvious that the only people who can shape what the Watch may be becoming is us, the currently active members. Check out the thread when it kicks off and share your opinion.

u.

I keep advocating for the number of forums on the index to be reduced. My theory goes thusly: Merging forums together makes low activity less spread out, which makes the forum appear less quiet, and if it looks like there's discussion going on, it encourages people to take part.

Was I supposed to start a thread or something?

aliantha wrote:Was I supposed to start a thread or something?

Nope, I've an OP started, I just haven't got around to finishing it yet and starting the thread, However, if you want to kick it off I can add my thoughts as we go along. I was going to call it something like 'Whither Kevin's Watch....?'

u.

I'm Murrin wrote:I keep advocating for the number of forums on the index to be reduced. My theory goes thusly: Merging forums together makes low activity less spread out, which makes the forum appear less quiet, and if it looks like there's discussion going on, it encourages people to take part.

Hear, hear!

I've maintained for years that there are two many forums here. I argued the same thing at Ahira's Hangar.

It makes it harder to know where to go and harder for everyone to interact when you have so many choices of forum in which to post.

Some of the community boards I've been involved in that have been the most successful have no more than two to four forums in the index. Several that I'm actively involved in have basically a forum with all-round shmoozing, and a specialized forum dedicated to popular culture or to the interests that brought people to the site. Maybe one or two others that are a lot more inactive than the main two.

So, for example, that would work out here to a shmoozing forum (like General Discussion) and an SRD forum. Because of our history and archives here at Kevin's Watch, we might want more forums than that, but I would vote for a drastic paring down of choices.

So we're merging the Tank with Mallory's?

You should duck.

I dunno -- Mallory's and the Tank do look kind of similar, if you squint just right...

ussusimiel wrote:

aliantha wrote:Was I supposed to start a thread or something?

Nope, I've an OP started, I just haven't got around to finishing it yet and starting the thread, However, if you want to kick it off I can add my thoughts as we go along. I was going to call it something like 'Whither Kevin's Watch....?'

u.

If you've got a draft started, go for it.

aliantha wrote:I dunno -- Mallory's and the Tank do look kind of similar, if you squint just right...

So are they both funny, or both devoid of humor?

MsMary wrote:Hear, hear!

I've maintained for years that there are two many forums here. I argued the same thing at Ahira's Hangar.

It makes it harder to know where to go and harder for everyone to interact when you have so many choices of forum in which to post.

Some of the community boards I've been involved in that have been the most successful have no more than two to four forums in the index. Several that I'm actively involved in have basically a forum with all-round shmoozing, and a specialized forum dedicated to popular culture or to the interests that brought people to the site. Maybe one or two others that are a lot more inactive than the main two.

So, for example, that would work out here to a shmoozing forum (like General Discussion) and an SRD forum. Because of our history and archives here at Kevin's Watch, we might want more forums than that, but I would vote for a drastic paring down of choices.

I wouldn't be quite so drastic. I'd get rid of the TC movie and TC art forums, as stated. I'd suggest merging General SRD Discussion with Other Works. A new thought to me is promoting General Discussion (one of the most active forums) up toward the top of the index, instead of below all the Donaldson forums. Then you scrap the Library in favour of a Gen Lit forum, moved into the spot that currently has Gen Disc.

And close the Watchy Awards forum, they're not going to happen and with how dead the site is these days they're just highlighting the fact.

So, maybe you'd have this:

The Watch
--Announcements & Suggestions
--General Discussion
--Q&A
--The Summonsing
SRD Forums
--First and Second Chrons
--Last Chrons
----(Subforums)
--The Gap
--Mordant's Need
--Other Works and General SRD Discussion
The Multifariam
--General F/SF Discussion
--General Literature Discussion
--The Hall of Gifts
--The Hegemony
----(Subforums)
--The Waymeet
----(Subforums)
Gravin Threndor
--Games
----(Subforums)
--Archive
----(Subforums)

rdhopeca wrote:

aliantha wrote:I dunno -- Mallory's and the Tank do look kind of similar, if you squint just right...

So are they both funny, or both devoid of humor?

Yes.

Maybe I should just split off these last few comments, since we seem to have begun the discussion...

aliantha wrote:I dunno -- Mallory's and the Tank do look kind of similar, if you squint just right...

All other threads are subsets of the Tank, which is why they all look like the Tank with the correct ambient lighting.

ussusimiel wrote: 'Whither Kevin's Watch....?'

u.

or wither?

The point is to *keep* the Watch from withering.

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:

aliantha wrote:I dunno -- Mallory's and the Tank do look kind of similar, if you squint just right...

All other threads are subsets of the Tank, which is why they all look like the Tank with the correct ambient lighting.

--A

aliantha wrote:Maybe I should just split off these last few comments, since we seem to have begun the discussion...

Good idea. I'll add in my as we go along.

aliantha wrote:

rdhopeca wrote:

aliantha wrote:I dunno -- Mallory's and the Tank do look kind of similar, if you squint just right...

So are they both funny, or both devoid of humor?

Yes.

They are both funnily devoid of humour!

I'm Murrin wrote:I keep advocating for the number of forums on the index to be reduced.

I agree with the slimming down of the forum listings and the promotion of a more general hang-out forum.

aliantha wrote:The point is to *keep* the Watch from withering.

This!!!

Thinking of the Watch as in transition is a much more positive attitude to cultivate and is likely to encourage people to participate more (which is obviously the most important way to sustain the forum). A slimmed down forum will help clarify what the possible purposes the forum may now be.

A simple suggestion for how we might help sustain the forum is to do what ali did recently in some of her blog posts and let people know about the forum and encourage them to read the books. I met a group of sci-fi and fantasy writers recently and none of them had read the books!

u.

[Double Post: to post that OP I was working on.]

The future of Kevin's Watch as a forum came up a number of times in conversation at the Elohimfest. There was a real concern that with the completion of the Chronicles the forum might no longer have a clear purpose. There was also a genuine sense of loss at the thought that the forum might cease to exist.

I have been aware, since I joined the forum three years ago, that I was part of something that could be perceived as in decline. I have watched steadily diminishing numbers of new people joining, declining participation rates, the departure of highly active members, an ageing membership, a marked absence of young members, a movement of certain forms of social activity to Facebook and so on.

Personally, I can think of some obvious reasons for this. Firstly, the age profile of the Watch has advanced by 10+ years, which means that many people simply have less time than they previously had due to increased commitments: relationships, kids, jobs etc. Secondly, the initial level of interest in the Watch had the 1st and 2nd Chronicles to fuel it for many years and the generally accepted disappointment with the LCs has meant that that momentum has not been maintained even with the arrival of the new books. Thirdly, a significant amount of the virtual contact has led to RL/Facebook contact that no longer needs the Watch to sustain it.

While I originally believed that the Watch was going to slowly expire, I now believe that the Watch is in a state of transition. I feel that the decline in the activity on the Watch has bottomed out, so without some dramatic new development (e.g. a HBO series of the Chronicles), this is likely to be the new normal level. If this description is true, then understanding and accepting it will help us put use our energy into constructive participation and activity instead of feeling discouraged and disheartened.

(As has been mentioned above) one of the consequences of the acceptance of the new level of activity may be the concentration of that activity into a fewer number of places. It would increase the sense of a community if there was a more diverse mixture of threads and it might lead to more contact between people who rarely cross paths.*

The core purpose of the forum remains to provide a place for people to discuss SRD's work, however, a thing that may become obvious is that a second purpose of the forum may be to maintain the virtual community that has been created by the Watch.

It was clear to me (and others) at the 'Fest that the community created by Kevin's Watch is a valuable thing. There is some quality that SRD brings to his work that attracts a very specific kind of person, which has subsequently, through the Watch, created a genuine community. One of the important purposes of the Watch now may be to nourish and sustain that community for the benefit of its current and future members.

u.

* For example, the energy and activity in the 'Tank needs to be appreciated and engaged with. I have been delighted to see that after the 'Fest a number of people have re-engaged with the 'Tank in a valuable and significant way (ali even recently started a thread )

Here's the new thread, and thanks to u. for suggesting the name. I'm going to post my thoughts, and then pimp this thread around in a couple of forums (as well as in the Watch groups on Facebook) to see if we can't bring as many Watchers as possible into the discussion.

I would very much prefer to think of the Watch as being in transition. I've considered this place my home on teh intarwebz for somewhere in the neighborhood of 14 years. From the very first, we've thought of the Watch as the best place on the web, full of genuinely nice people. I love all you guys (although admittedly, some Watchers are harder to love than others ) and I count a lot of you as friends in real life. I would hate to lose this place where we all met.

I admit that I've not been a consistent presence here for all of the past 14 years -- sometimes real life has intervened, and sometimes teh new shiny (most recently Facebook) has caught my attention and sucked up my time. But I've been making an effort since E-fest to spend time here again, and I've been reminded why I've stuck around for so many years.

For one thing, unlike on Facebook (damn you and your drive to monetize, Mark Zuckerberg! ), everybody can see every post on the Watch. The BBS platform doesn't limit what you see. This is perfect for sustaining discussions.

And the discussions here are of value. On Twitter, you have to cram your comment into 140 characters, or else split it up over several tweets. FB appears to be best at encouraging bland comments on memes. G+ is better than FB for deeper discussions (I swear I'm going to check out those posts you linked me to, Av! ), but it's still a bit of a distraction when the thread you're responding in updates in real time before you can hit "post". In contrast, the format here at the Watch encourages thoughtful responses. I'd almost forgotten what it was like to take time, and care, to craft a response to someone else's comment. You don't typically get that on Facebook.

And that's not to say that we don't have our goofy moments, too.

Anyway, that's why I think the Watch is worth saving: thoughtful discussions with amazing people; an equal platform where everybody can see what everybody else posts; and I love you guys.

I don't have enough experience with other forums to express an opinion on whether Murrin's suggestion for realigning the forum structure would help. But I like the idea of moving stuff around a bit, and there are definitely things we can archive, besides just the old GT games. For example, I wouldn't want to dump the TC Movie and TC Art threads entirely, but I could get behind moving them into an archive forum.

We might also think about an off-Watch archive for some of the older threads in the really huge forums like GenDisc and the Tank. I know we're at least one BBS version behind, and one of the primary reasons we haven't updated is that the database is so humongous that it would be a pain to migrate.

Perhaps ironically, we've been kicking around the idea of a separate forum for discussing all of the Chrons, for those who have read all of the books and would like to discuss overarching themes without having to use spoiler tags. Would it make sense to have, under the SRD Discussion forum, one subforum for the individual Chrons (with two sub-subforums, one for the 1st and 2nd Chrons and one for the final Chrons) and one for all 10 books? Just putting that out there. I think at this point, we could really use a free-discussion zone for all 10 books.

And as for moving GenDisc up in the forum list, you'll get no argument from me.

I see no reason why this Land-lovers' beacon should ever be forgotten. My lurker $0.02..