Kevin's Watch

Posted: **Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:22 pm**

A blurb of the paper may be found here at Science Daily. Other sources, including the study's original publication in ScienceMag, are provided in the article.

Even I did not know that Turning worked on some biological formation problems in addition to his computer science and cryptology work.

His contribution to mathematical biology is less famous, but was no less profound. He published just one paper (1952), but it triggered a whole new field of mathematical enquiry into pattern formation. He discovered that a system with just 2 molecules could, at least in theory, create spotty or stripy patterns if they diffused and chemically interacted in just the right way.

His mathematical equations showed that starting from uniform condition (ie. a homogeneous distribution -- no pattern) they could spontaneously self-organise their concentrations into a repetitive spatial pattern. This theory has come to be accepted as an explanation of fairly simple patterns such as zebra stripes and even the ridges on sand dunes, but in embryology it has been resisted for decades as an explanation of how structures such as fingers are formed.

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This result answers a long-standing question in the field, but it has consequences that go beyond the development of fingers. It addresses a more general debate about how the millions of cells in our bodies are able to dynamically arrange themselves into the correct 3D structures, for example in our kidneys, hearts and other organs. It challenges the dominance of an important traditional idea called positional information, proposed by Lewis Wolpert which states that cells know what to do because they all receive information about their "coordinates" in space (a bit like longitude and latitude on a world map). Today's publication highlights instead that local self-organising mechanisms may be much more important in organogenesis than previously thought.

Self-organizing systems are also still on the cutting edge of robotics, especially in the area of building really simple robots which, when a large group of them get together, can perform highly complex tasks or build complicated structures.

The idea of starting from a homogenous solution and having it spontaneously form stripes is found in chaos theory; it also explains Jupiter's striped appearance as well as the Red Spot. Systems which have gone into "chaos" will still exhibit regular patterns from time to time; in fact, there is a very important theorem from chaos/dynamic systems which states "a 3-period implies chaos"; in other words, if a system governed by an equation (or set of equations, which I will condense into only one) where f(a) = b, f(b) = c, and f(c) = a then the system is actually "chaotic". There is more to it than that but that is the general premise.

Anyway...the important part is about the potential for future medical procedures of growing new organs from a person's stem cells. Couple that with the procedure developed in Japan of converting erythrocytes (red blood cells) into stem cells means that tissue rejection from organ replacements will be a thing of the past.

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:12 pm**

Will this be the route that ultimately leads to the immortality which is our rightfull destiny, or a mere 'stepping stone' toward the stage where it is organs and bodies that themselves become obsolete?

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:37 pm**

Until we become cyborgs or fully non-organic--I have some articles to link to start a new thread on that, but it is a work-in-progress--we are going to reach the point where it becomes routine to take a blood sample, convert them into stem cells, grow an organ, then replace it. This could result in lifespans which exceed 120. I wouldn't say "obsolete" but "easily replaced" is not only probable but likely.

Once we go mostly or fully non-organic--I use that term instead of "robotic" because we won't be robots--bodily upkeep is just a trip to the machine shop or lab. We wouldn't even need to retain the two arm/two leg model we have now. Why not three legs for extra stability? How about a third arm in the back for ease of reaching objects?

Posted: **Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:01 am**

But is it not most likely that ultimately we will become entierly 'virtual', both in ourselves and in the environment we inhabit. At this stage will not the sky truly become the limit [for each of us individually as well as as a whole]; a sort of 'Elemesnedene' where only the limitations of our own imaginings can hold us back?

[I envisage a stage where even the 'hardware' of computers etc becomes obsolete and instead the processing occurs in huge intergalactic clouds spread out across the cosmos {It's better than the image of dead blakened planets with banks of winking towers sitting among the smoking refuse of the post-organic surface

}].

Posted: **Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:03 pm**

If it were possible to digitize our minds so that they run like a program on a computer system then our only limitations become making certain that we are connected to a power source and system security we cannot crack. There would still be the long-term problem of the Sun going nova, but if we are not limited by the needs of food, water, and sleep and we no longer suffer from pain, disease, or aging then there is no reason we couldn't climb onto space shuttles and launch ourselves to other stars. By then it won't matter if we have located exoplanets which approximate the conditions here because we won't have organic limitations--any planet will do.

The only drawback would be the end of the species as we know it--no procreation. On the other hand, maybe at some point someone decides they want to experience things like breathing or feeling cool water or their skin or sexual pleasure and they grow an organic body for themselves and copy their digitized mind into it. All it would take is another person to go back to organic of the opposite gender and children become a possibility again.

This could result in a society of two distinct groups, organics and non-organics, coexisting and changing identities/forms back and forth based on individual whims. You know....there is potential there for a good short story or possibly even an entire novel. I guess I need to get off my lazy butt, flesh out the ideas, and do something about it.

Posted: **Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:13 pm**

Hashi Lebwohl wrote: On the other hand, maybe at some point someone decides they want to experience things like breathing or feeling cool water or their skin or sexual pleasure and they grow an organic body for themselves and copy their digitized mind into it. All it would take is another person to go back to organic of the opposite gender and children become a possibility again.

I've often thought [and I think a few SF writers have included it] people should have to live a full [mostly] purely organic life. For much the same reason that I think all children should be raised speaking 2 completely different languages, and doing as much exercise, art, and music as math, history, and reading/writing.

Posted: **Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:20 pm**

Vraith wrote:I've often thought [and I think a few SF writers have included it] people should have to live a full [mostly] purely organic life.

Why? So they can experience things both physically and emotionally? We know that part of emotional experiences include physical reactions and if we were non-organic then we couldn't feel things like excitement or fear. So...non-organic "humans" wouldn't or couldn't be full-rounded individuals? I can see that.

Vraith wrote:For much the same reason that I think all children should be raised speaking 2 completely different languages, and doing as much exercise, art, and music as math, history, and reading/writing.

Oh, gosh yes. I wasn't around when the kids were younger so I couldn't introduce them to Spanish and French but I suppose I could start doing so now.

Kevin's Watch

Fingers and Toes are Turing Mechanisms

Fingers and Toes are Turing Mechanisms