Psilosybin's effect on the brain

[Zarathustra]

This could go in the Loresraat, too, but I think the direction will go more spiritual than scientific, if people are interested enough to give their own personal experiences. I'll give mine later, but I'll start with this article I just read:

Magic mushrooms create a 'hyperconnected brain': Scans reveal how chemical triggers a spiritual experience by rearranging the mind

Some highlights from the article:

Active chemical, psilocybin, causes dramatic increase in brain activity
It links up regions of the brain that don't normally talk to each other

This may be responsible for synaesthesia, the phenomenon whereby different senses are mixed up with others, according to UK scientists

Study could uncover usefulness of psilocybin in treating depression

It may also address issues such as where consciousness comes from

Briefly, my own experiences were transcendental. Profound. Life changing. Peter asks, in his thread about ideology, if people can radically change their baseline world view. Well, this will do it, if nothing else will. It's like opening yourself to the universe. People who have never had the experience may dismiss it as hallucination, but the evidence is starting to come in that it actually is a higher state of consciousness.

[Ananda]

In the middle of cooking dinner, so short answer from mobile thingie.

One interesting thing I noticed when doing mushrooms as opposed to lsd is the patterns are there for each, but both were quite different. For lsd, the patterns were very geometric. For mushrooms, they were more chaotic. A friend of mine noticed the same thing. Both of us had done a lot of both substances for a large case study for science.

[Zarathustra]

LSD never gave me the ecstatic experience, like shrooms do. However, both produced geometric visuals, especially with eyes closed.

The most interesting experiences were almost religious, as if God or some other presence was right in the room. It was a feeling of overwhelming joy and peace, combined with the knowledge of or contact with another mind (or so it felt). Also, a deep sense of connectedness with the universe, as if everything was just as it was supposed to be. The thought of dying was no longer frightening, but perfectly natural, part of life. There was no longer any resentment, aversion, or displeasure with any aspect of reality. It was all embraced with the 'holy' YES.

It was then when I started thinking that I'm literally the universe awakening to itself (or one small instance of it). Rather than thinking of myself as a distinct and separate Self, I felt the Ego dissolve as though it was going back to its Source. I thought that if aliens exist, this must be how they experience consciousness all the time. It seemed like it was where our minds are heading, the true potential within our brain, which is hidden by our social conditioning which causes us to shrink our worlds through routine, habit, convention, and social roles. Those are illusions we impose upon the infinite, in order to make it manageable. But they are illusions, or at least illusory.

It has been decades since I've had such experiences, but they are still some of the most powerful memories I have.

[Vraith]

LSD never gave me the ecstatic experience, like shrooms do. However, both produced geometric visuals, especially with eyes closed.

The most interesting experiences were almost religious, as if God or some other presence was right in the room. It was a feeling of overwhelming joy and peace, combined with the knowledge of or contact with another mind (or so it felt). Also, a deep sense of connectedness with the universe, as if everything was just as it was supposed to be. The thought of dying was no longer frightening, but perfectly natural, part of life. There was no longer any resentment, aversion, or displeasure with any aspect of reality. It was all embraced with the 'holy' YES.

It was then when I started thinking that I'm literally the universe awakening to itself (or one small instance of it). Rather than thinking of myself as a distinct and separate Self, I felt the Ego dissolve as though it was going back to its Source. I thought that if aliens exist, this must be how they experience consciousness all the time. It seemed like it was where our minds are heading, the true potential within our brain, which is hidden by our social conditioning which causes us to shrink our worlds through routine, habit, convention, and social roles. Those are illusions we impose upon the infinite, in order to make it manageable. But they are illusions, or at least illusory.

It has been decades since I've had such experiences, but they are still some of the most powerful memories I have.

Heh...heard about that [I think at livescience?] a couple days ago? Meant to bring it over here but forgot.
A lot in common with my experiences...including the difference from LSD.
And I agree with the potential in re peters ideology questions.

[Fist and Faith]

Never even tried pot, so... But what is the definition of "higher state of consciousness"?

[Zarathustra]

F&F, I think the brain scan data gives at least one definition. It shows a more interconnected brain. Part of our brain's power--relative to computers--is its ability for parallel processing. So a higher level of interconnection between sections of the brain might be viewed as more parallel processing. And if our brain is viewed as "higher" than what computers do, well, there you go.

I've described the phenomenological character of "higher." There is more that could be said, but if you're truly interested, Terrance McKenna has written a lot about it, and I've enjoyed his book Archaic Revival quite a lot. Timothy Leary's autobiography is pretty good, too. Robert Anton Wilson writes about this sort of thing in his Cosmic Trigger series.

Or you can just search for the ecstatic experience.

Pot can reach areas that are in the same ballpark, if you have a particularly strong or appropriate strain. It makes forming connections between ideas or artistic forms (music, art, etc.) easier and more fluid, which is probably why it helped give birth to the jazz movement, free-form improvisation broken free of classical conventions. For me, pot brings the background to the foreground, so that all those thoughts which aren't quite subconscious, but still run underneath the surface of the moment to be quickly forgotten, are suddenly prominent enough to occupy the main stage. There have been many times that I've written down ideas I've had while stoned that I remember were actually ideas I've had while sober, but simply didn't pay enough attention to them to write them down. It's like the focus of one's attention is unmoored, so that it can roam free to focus on aspects of consciousness and reality that are always there, but not always paid attention to. Or, like remembering your dreams. You've had them, they were trippy, but you usually forget them. With pot, I find the opposite to be the case. I think people seem "spaced out" on pot because their focus is pulled away from the external due to how much is happening internally. It's probably not an ideal way to go to work or drive a car, but if you're looking for a way to tap into your creativity, it's a wonder drug.

Of course, you have to have the appropriate strain (there are hundreds). Some just lay you out and make you hungry.

We experience altered states all day long. We nightly have hallucinations more vivid than any drug can produce (i.e. dreams). And yet no one thinks it's strange that the brain can produce such full-blown 3D visions, or even consider the difference between paying attention and spacing out (in the normal way). Our brain is capable of many different altered states, none of which can be said to be typical or normal, since we slip in and out of them all the time. Think about reading a book. It's almost like a spell: little black marks on paper make you fly away to another world as you read them. You're not in reality right now. You're connecting with my thought through a computer screen and forgetting the room around you. I don't know if that's "higher" or merely "longitudinal," but it's an altered state, too.

[Fist and Faith]

I see. Just wondering how you meant things.

[Avatar]

I think my love of hallucinogenics is well recorded. I had taken LSD for some years before I ever tried mushrooms, but although there are distinct differences for me, I can't say I ever experienced anything I would call ecstasy on either.

For me the difference is literally the difference between chemical and organic. Acid is harsher, more intense, more edgy. I'm more likely to feel euphoric with psilosybin, to be able to relax.

(I also never experienced the whole "unity" thing...I tend to feel isolated and like it.)

(And finally, I totally agree with Z. Once you have taken a significant hallucinogen, you never see the world in quite the same way again. Your perspective is fundamentally altered. (And I like to think expanded.))

--A

[Morning]

I once managed to grow peyote, which I then consumed and inhaled, but experienced nothing more than a fairly strong headache. Never tried it with "professional grade" product, which is impossible to find here, even illegally. No market.

And a friend got me some salvia divinorum which I tried to apply unto myself in every imaginable way but to no avail so I used whatever was left of it as seasoning for a chicken stew.

Other than that, I have trouble staying away from red wine, but seldom feel any other urge to alter my state of consciousness. And now I want to try the mushrooms specially since I found a cool-looking graphic on Wired depicting the alterations that occur inside the brain under their influence.

Weird.

[Fist and Faith]

Oh what the hell. Nobody enjoys a debate more than you, Z. So let me question a couple things.

You're not in reality right now. You're connecting with my thought through a computer screen and forgetting the room around you.

I think you're going too far. An altered state of consciousness, whether it's connecting with the thought of another person through a computer screen or a dream, is a part of reality.

The most interesting experiences were almost religious, as if God or some other presence was right in the room. It was a feeling of overwhelming joy and peace, combined with the knowledge of or contact with another mind (or so it felt). Also, a deep sense of connectedness with the universe, as if everything was just as it was supposed to be. The thought of dying was no longer frightening, but perfectly natural, part of life. There was no longer any resentment, aversion, or displeasure with any aspect of reality. It was all embraced with the 'holy' YES.

My stance is, any experience that allows you to view the Holocaust (to name just the most notorious of an uncountable number of examples) without resentment, aversion, or displeasure is not at all 'holy'. It is a false view being forced, or imprinted, or whatever word I'm looking for, onto you. It cannot be a valid, or desirable, view. Even if it is learned that there is an afterlife, beside which any suffereing anybody goes through while alive becomes less than insignificant, it does not make such things a YES. If all beings have this deep sense of connectedness, then I suspect none of these horrors would take place. But if they are taking place, then saying YES to them is wrong. Is it possible that the altered state of consciousness that the drug gave you is not entirely beneficial? Not exclusively growth? Further, is it possible that it is the illusion?

[Zarathustra]

I don't think the drug makes you change your values so that you view something evil, like the Holocaust, as something good. Rather, it's accepted--like Covenant accepting Lord Foul--because it's something that we can't change, and we must come to terms with it or lose ourselves in hate and rage.

I think it's more about taking the "Long View." The asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was awful, I'm sure, to those who experienced it, but without that calamity, we wouldn't be here. The same could be said of something like slavery--which was awful--but it also had some positive effects like bringing millions of black people to America where today they have much greater opportunity than if their ancestors had stayed in Africa.

It's a way to make peace with those aspects of reality which are admittedly bad, but are unavoidable parts of what led to our current state. It's the same realization of your own mortality ... you can't change it, it's awful, but I wouldn't trade being here merely to avoid dying. Life and existence are that good, that even the most heinous evils don't undermine their value.

I think you're going too far. An altered state of consciousness, whether it's connecting with the thought of another person through a computer screen or a dream, is a part of reality.

I absolutely agree. I was speaking figuratively. I don't think you can leave reality, no matter how altered (or even merely inauthentic) you become. I think the basic forms of consciousness always necessarily partake in--and consist of--ontological structures that are real even when we're not aware of them explicitly, or when we're focusing on fictions. Every fiction still connects with reality, because they're all invented by real people who can't escape their own facticity (though they can deny it).

[lorin]

why do I suddenly have an intense urge for cream of mushroom soup?

[Vraith]

Is it possible that the altered state of consciousness...is it possible that it is the illusion?

No, I don't think that is possible. The state of consciousness is what it is, even if what it is conscious OF isn't.
If I see the Virgin Mary on a piece of toast, my state is real even if she's no Virgin, not Mary, or the toast is an Ego Waffle [puns intended].

But, on a more practical level...there are plenty of un-altered states that are not beneficial. Many actively dangerous or harmful or both. Normal everyday ones far worse IMO [and probably medically, too, if anyone really looked] than 'shrooms or LSD.

Stress. Anger. Fear. Hate. Loneliness. Isolation. Anxiety...etc. et-endless-cetera.

And there is a fair amount of preliminary evidence that these kinds of drugs might be powerful treatments/cures for a number of plagues and ills. [unlike almost any of the treatments that are approved by the medical-industrial complex].

[Ananda]

My stance is, any experience that allows you to view the Holocaust (to name just the most notorious of an uncountable number of examples) without resentment, aversion, or displeasure is not at all 'holy'. It is a false view being forced, or imprinted, or whatever word I'm looking for, onto you. It cannot be a valid, or desirable, view.

I would say you have it backwards. Events just are (or are not, or both at once). Good and bad are constructs that we created to describe our daily existence and apply only if we experience them (which is subjective). People who feel that these good/bad dichotomy things are the reality are the ones who are in the illusion, in my opinion. Real, yes... these things we experience, but also not real. As the buddhists say, joyful participation in the illusion.

And, Z, I think the ecstatic experience is pretty typical with users of these types of drugs. Most who used the drugs are more than just a party fun fun (which I also do, but mostly, I went to the woods with a friend or stayed in the house listening to music alone). Sex on lsd is odd, too.

On the patterns, what I (and the friend I used to do psychedelics with the most) noticed is that the mushrooms had patterns that were more celtic knots.. you know, intricate, sort of chaotic. Maybe fractalish. While the led was more geometric and symmetrical.

I also recommend that everyone who doesn't have a medical reason not to try lsd, mushrooms, and so at least once in their life.

I had a friend who told me that some institutions consider you insane if you have taken more than x amount of lsd in your life. Anyone else ever hear that?

[Fist and Faith]

Is it possible that the altered state of consciousness...is it possible that it is the illusion?

No, I don't think that is possible. The state of consciousness is what it is, even if what it is conscious OF isn't.

Yes, I worded that poorly. Z said the routine, habit, convention, and social roles are illusions. I think the "higher consciousness" that allows one to think of children being tortured and murdered in front of their parents without resentment, aversion, or displeasure is illusory in the same sense. They are not objective things outside of us that we stumbled upon and embraced. They are all invented by us, and flawed to suit us. It is not "higher" consciousness if it gives one that view. It sounds like the removal of consciousness. Or at least an important aspect of consciousness. If you can observe and think, you will have preferences. Which means you discriminate. You judge. If you're thinking, you had damned well better judge Disney World better than Auschwitz. How can they be equally embraced with the 'holy' YES? Other animal species are conscious, but not as we are. I suspect they do not discriminate much beyond a lion's preference for wildebeest over grass. They surely do not judge Disney World to be better than Auschwitz.

Am I making any sense? It seems this higher consciousness goes hand-in-hand with the loss of something that we should not be willing to give up.

[aliantha]

why do I suddenly have an intense urge for cream of mushroom soup?

Y'all have led much more interesting lives than I have. That's all I've got to say. (Tried pot once. Tried cocaine once. Neither experience was so overwhelmingly awesome that I was inclined to do it again.)

[Fist and Faith]

Well you're two up on me, ali! Heh. I'm a virgin. I have no intention of ever trying anything. (I've been drunk, though.) I'm not opposed to it, it's just not for me.

[Zarathustra]

Is it possible that the altered state of consciousness...is it possible that it is the illusion?

No, I don't think that is possible. The state of consciousness is what it is, even if what it is conscious OF isn't.

Yes, I worded that poorly. Z said the routine, habit, convention, and social roles are illusions.

It seems that we're all wording things poorly, I guess. I should have said "fictions" rather than illusions. But even illusions are real, in the sense that they are phenomena of which we're aware. The illusory part comes in how we frame the phenomenon, understand it, explain it, etc. That wavy watery looking patch on the distant pavement may not be a pool of water, but it's a real effect of heat/air/light.

Social roles are fictions. In some sense, they are valid fictions, relative to certain goals. But we can lose sight of our larger humanity if we think of ourselves as primarily what we do for a living, or who we have married, or what expensive car we drive, etc. In the end, we're all worm food and none of that will matter.

I think the "higher consciousness" that allows one to think of children being tortured and murdered in front of their parents without resentment, aversion, or displeasure is illusory in the same sense.

I feel like you're stretching my point into territory I didn't mean, in order to squeeze a negative out of it. If you saw children being tortured while tripping you'd probably freak the fuck out. But at the same time, our aversion to seeing violence is a biological, evolutionary survival mechanism. The anger it evokes can control us, if we let it. The same "higher" that allows parents of murdered children to forgive the murderer--for their own peace--is what I'm talking about here. It doesn't mean they like it, they simply make peace with it so it doesn't tear them apart inside. The capacity for forgiveness can be applied to all of reality ... it's like forgiving Existence itself for being shitty sometimes. The alternative is to be bitter, to think all humans evil, and to give up on the world because it's not perfect ... which then leads people into the inauthenticity of seeking their meaning in a world beyond this one where they can imagine it actually is perfect.

I understand doubting something you've never experienced. But you should also realize that you're in no position to make a claim about it one way or the other, for the same reason: you haven't experienced it.

For me, the experience was overwhelmingly real. Forget about the visuals, the euphoria, or the other things I've discussed so far. Consider this this instead--we all go through times (daily) when we forget about our existence as existence itself. When we're making breakfast, getting the kids ready for school, we're not pondering the existential crisis, or how amazing it is that we exist at all when a billion little events could have happened differently to lead to us not existing. And there are other times when our awareness of our own Being increases dramatically, sometimes even uncomfortably. So, without a doubt, this kind of awareness moves on a spectrum of intensity, i.e. more or less. If we can agree on that, than consider the possibility that even in your highest awareness of yourself, it could have gone higher. That's what this experience was for me, the most intense awareness of my own Being that I've ever had. All the ways that we typically distract ourselves and lose ourselves dropped away. And since I am not a hallucination, I can say with confidence that an increased awareness of my own Being is indeed a higher awareness.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

I have never done shrooms, just LSD. I've gotten pretty interested in the who ayyahuasca thing. It's interesting that DMT is almost everywhere, and it seems to function like a spirit molecule.

[Morning]

Yes, if only my peyote had matured properly