Virgin Galactic's Model 339 SS2 Vss Enterprise Crashes.

[peter]

Didn't know qyite whether to post this in the Loreserat or here in the Tank, but decided upon the latter on the basis that I am interested in peoples views in areas that will go way beyond the technical aspects of the crash. That it is a disaster for the amiable Mr Branson and his dreams of being the forst 'tour opperator' to offer an 'edge of space' journey [omplete with a brief period of weightlesness] does not really need to be said. Details as to what exactly went wrong are sketchy at present, but there has been some suggestion that there were problems with weather and other delays at the launch which may have had an input.

I'm not sure whether the company had actually begun selling tickets as yet, but given that the first flights were due to go off sometime toward the end of next year they cannot have been far from doing so. [Tickets on the QM2's maiden voyage were sold out five years in advance of the ship's launch and I cannot believe that interest in the first ever 'space tourist' flight woud be any less intense]. Today however, purchasers or at least prospective ones [and at a million dollars a pop {I believe} people are bound to have some advance idea that they may go for one] are going to be feeling a little less sure that perhaps this was such a good idea. I myself have always had some reservations; I guess I'm so used to state run bodies being in charge of getting people into space and back - and with serious reasons for doing so - that the idea of the companies who specialise in stripped down 'no-frills' type opperations taking on what seems such a dangerous enterprise, just seems - well - dodgy! But really I guess thats a bit silly. I'm guessing it's the actual getting up into the air and back down thats the really skilled part - and these guys do this all the time; the height one flies to probably just depends on 'tweaking the kit' a bit and so the idea is not so weird after all.

Anybody else got any observations on the matter?

[ps The greatest tragedy is of course the poor individual who lost his life and the one who currently fights for his in hospital.]

[Wildling]

I had completely forgotten about the whole "space tourist" shuttle plan. At a million a ticket why should I have thought of it? It's not like I'll ever be a passenger on the ship.

[finn]

Of course because its Richard Branson, the newshounds are all over it, but when you consider that his aircraft/spacecraft is still in development, the explosion of the spacecraft sending supplies up to the International Space Station is far worse from a technical point of view. It is supposed to be fully tested and operational; but then so were the shuttles.

With big rewards go big risks and the tragedy is in the lost pilot and his injured companion, but they are doing what they love no doubt for a sizable cheque and accept the risks commensurate with that, just as a deep sea diver does or a mountain rescuer or a fireman for that matter. The fact is that space will eventually become the boom industry, for holidays, commerce and eventually settlements. The pitfalls of today are not unlike the disasters most early technologies face.

Wilding, relax.... its only a quarter of a million!

[Vraith]

I was expecting a disaster for them at some point.
It is inherently complex and dangerous work they're doing.
It nearly had to happen at some point.
It might crash the company [they're way behind schedule and way over budget I think, on top of this]
I saw some suggestion that they might have been under-testing critical systems and structures. I hope that isn't so...

But at least SOMEONE is working in this field.
We [people...all people] need it.
So I hope the result is they take care of the pilot's families, use more
rigorous procedures if necessary, and keep pushing.

[Wildling]

Wilding, relax.... its only a quarter of a million!

Oh! Well that's different then. I could almost fit that into my monthly budget.

[[Syl]]

I guess VGs role is somewhat important, but for real commercial space travel, my money's on SpaceX. This sub-orbital thing is mainly a gimmick. It's not even close to space, and if you just want weightlessness, there's always the Vomit Comet.

I think it's definitely worth considering the opinion of Joel Glenn Brenner, a former Washington Post correspondent and friend of the pilots.

www.mediaite.com/tv/ex-wapo-reporter-go ... ends-life/
www.npr.org/2014/11/01/360629466/rocket ... e-ventures

[finn]

Good to see ya' Syl....

I suspect that VG and SpaceX will benefit each other by virtue of creating competition for each other. But this is a new frontier, there will be losses; empty seats will still have plenty of replacements waiting to get selected for the next gig.

[sgt.null]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u6-pecrzCo

science once again trumps reason.

[rdhopeca]

FWIW, I think anything that dampens the enthusiasm for space travel and/or exploration damages us all.

[peter]

I had wondered about just how ground-breaking in terms of the long term goal of actually getting us out into space, permanently, sustainably and in numbers, the 'edge of space' tourism thing really was. I think it's chief import is that if nothing else [as it was remarked above] it keeps us 'in the game'. Even if just enough to focus peoples minds on the idea that 'space' is a thing we need to be doing and thatwe ought to be prepared to pay for - then that is of itself, surely enough.

[Zarathustra]

I think it's awesome that private companies are stepping in to fill the void of the horrible, expensive, outdated Shuttle. I'll give Obama some credit here for shifting the responsibility for servicing the ISS to private companies. The Libertarian in me is quite proud that America is rich and inventive enough that we now have corporations competing with other countries for space exploration. However, I think space is important enough that our government shouldn't give up on it (not that it is).

[Hashi Lebwohl]

I concur with Z--space is too important to abandon programs which give us more of a presence there. As he has noted elsewhere, if we don't get off the planet then eventually everything we ever did will disappear--it will be as if we never existed at all.

We shouldn't look at this tragedy as if it were more tragic than a car accident or plane crash or a boat capsizing. The fact that it was space-based only puts it into a different category of "vehicle accident" rather than the "oh the humanity" category.

[Avatar]

I concur with Z--space is too important to abandon programs which give us more of a presence there. As he has noted elsewhere, if we don't get off the planet then eventually everything we ever did will disappear--it will be as if we never existed at all.

One day it will be as if we never existed anyway Hashi. And it really doesn't matter. Because that's life.

--A

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Well, yes, eventually there won't be anything which could be termed "homo sapiens" any more and at some point there won't be an Earth, either, especially after the Sun swells into a red giant and cooks the planet through-and-through. In the meantime, though, we are helpless while sitting here waiting for a large asteroid to enter the atmosphere and cause another mass extinction. At least if we have a presence in space then not everything we have ever done would be for nothing...

...even though in the long term everything will have done is for naught, a conclusion with which I do not disagree.

[Vraith]

...even though in the long term everything will have done is for naught, a conclusion with which I do not disagree.

Well, I disagree. Even if there's some unknown process going on right now that will eliminate everything shortly after I finish typing I don't agree that everything will have been for naught [nor Av's it will be as if we never were]
Irrational reason: meaning doesn't depend on lasting. If it means for any instant ever, then it meant and will mean.
Physics [as it is] reason: information cannot be destroyed
Physics [as it will be] reason: once we know all the laws of physics and how they work [and probably even before] we will be able to alter those laws [at least locally] and won't be subject to the ultimate end/entropy [if that is even our current destiny]...cuz that end applies to closed systems. The uni/multiverse might not BE a closed system now. And even if it is, it needn't necessarily remain so.

The last is the coolest option, and getting into space and the techs involved will help make sure we survive long enough for it to happen.

[Avatar]

I never said meaning depended on lasting. Meaning is a purely internal measure. It's not that what we did won't have meant anything (at the time we did it), it's just that it won't matter any more whether we did it or not.

--A

[sgt.null]

-space is too important to abandon programs which give us more of a presence there. As he has noted elsewhere, if we don't get off the planet then eventually everything we ever did will disappear--it will be as if we never existed at all.

we ain't going anywhere without artificial gravity. we will die before we ever get to Mars. and we need a better fuel. until you solve those, here we stay.