Kevin's Watch

Which is the bigger evil?

Evil as defined by us has to favor the zone implants over the mutagen. But I wonder if once the mutagen takes hold, if you don't think it's the best thing in the world.

I think the Zone implants are the greater evil as well... because your there and experiencing it... but your not with the mutagens... because your effectivly dead.

I'd go with zone implants as well, though if you're the one holding the control it may not seem like a bad thing. 'Control' is the issue; I believe addiction would be almost impossible to avoid.

I look at them as almost the same thing.

If you are given the mutegen, you are now in controll of the Amnion. And of course the same goes for zone implants.

I looked at ZI's as the human version of Mutagen.

I've always seen it more as if you're given the mutagen, you are an Amnioni. Not so much 'controlled' by them, as actually being one of them.

It's a horrifying idea, but you probably don't think of it that way afterwards.

With the zone implant you're still human, though whether you remain human depends on how it's used.

Yeah well, humans aren't as good at things as the Amnion.

Think about the crew of Fasners private ship, the were completly in his controll, but free to do things on their own, It seemed like a crude version of Mutagen to me.

good topic...I think the Zone Implant is by far the worse, as evidenced by what Nick and Angus did to Morn Hyland...
at least with the mutagen you become Amnioni and lose all your humanity...
evil? I think Angus was the evil one...

Although... reading over an excerpt from TDAGD that I posted on another thread, Vestabule, though completely loyal to the Amnion, still resented Thermopyle's part in his creation.

And off topic, welcome to the Gap board, gtrgy!

zone implant is high on my personal 'evil' list.

If I had to choose one of the two for myself, I would have to go with the mutagen.

Zone implants have too much humiliation potential for me to live with.

i wouldnt even care about being humiliated, at least with the zone implant you have the potential to fight back and kill your captor, whereas the mutagen cant be fought

Rincewind sez:

i wouldnt even care about being humiliated, at least with the zone implant you have the potential to fight back and kill your captor, whereas the mutagen cant be fought

yes i agree...at least ZI gives you a fighting chance to control it yourself...once you're amnion, you're amnion.

to me, the mutagen is the greater evil.

No question in my mind: the mutagen is the greater evil. For one thing, a zone implant can be removed. And just because it has the potential to be used for brainwashing and enslaving people, doesn't mean that it will be so used in any given instance. Zone implants can be abused, but mutagens are inherently abusive.

Did you know that zone implants are actually being used today to treat extreme cases of clinical depression? Trials are being done with patients whose depression does not respond to medication. An electrode is inserted into the appropriate centre of the patient's brain, and a subdermally implanted chip sends tiny electric shocks into the brain at a frequency of (if I remember correctly) 135 Hz. This treatment has produced amazing results in at least some test subjects. People whose depression could not be treated in any other way have been enabled to live normal and fulfilling lives by this technique.


They don't call them zone implants, of course, because that term is SRD's own invention. But the basic technology is unquestionably the same.

A zone implant can be evil if the controls are in someone else's hands and that person means you harm. But the mutagen is really creepy, to me, cause you have no control and they are irreversible. The Amnioni are the creepiest aliens I have ever encountered in a scifi book.

Mutagen, because it is irreversible.

Depends who has the zone implant...

--A

Avatar wrote:Depends who has the zone implant...

--A

VERY true!

drew wrote:I looked at ZI's as the human version of Mutagen.

That is a great insight!

I would rather have a mutagen put in me than a zone implant. I'm not really interested in giving up my humanity but the thought doesn't horrify me: the amnion come across as pretty awful in their way, but the worst of the humans seem much worse. Amnion seem to have blatant disregard for themselves and each other due to differing circumstances (can't their consciousnesses be transferred? and they are just plain less individualistic) but they also don't seem to be inclined towards treating each other horribly. Seems like being transformed into an amnion would be the worst part. The woman who was initially injected died of terror IIRC (not sure why it didn't happen with subsequent victims, maybe the mutagen was more refined at that point).

But if someone I knew had a zone implant in them, at least the remote could be destroyed. And from that perspective, in consideration of those who care about me, maybe I'd rather have a zone implant after all.

Also, besides the real life example given above, at least zone implants were sometimes used for good reasons.