2015 Hugo Awards Discussion

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:56 pm

The Hugo ballot is pretty bad this year. I've split this discussion of it off from its beginning in the Awards thread.

kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=990163#990163

Post by **Orlion** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:27 pm

No Moon Knight in the best Graphic Novel Story selection?! *Tips over drink-covered table in a rage*

I'm surprised to see Kevin J Anderson nominated for anything outside of fan fiction. *Reads description of Anderson book* Sounds like Hamilton-Lite... and I wouldn't consider Hamilton for a Hugo.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:22 am

The entire Hugo ballot was overrun by a ballot stuffing campaign organised by some right-wing authors. A large number of people were encouraged to buy Worldcon memberships and nominate a specific list of works in order to make a political point, rather than based on the merit of the works. This is the third year they've attempted this - last year, they managed to get 1-2 items on each category. This year, almost every single item on the ballot came from it.

(Technically, there were two lists, but the second was just the same list with a bunch more, much worse items filling in the gaps on the first list. The final ballot has most of both lists on it.)

The only categories that really made it out were Best Graphic Story, Best Dramatic Presentation (Short Form), Best Dramatic Presentation (Long Form) (only because they slated the exact same films everyone else was nominating), and Fan Artist (because they didn't include it on their slate).

I don't know a whole lot about the other names on this slate, and some I know are not associated with it by choice, but I do know that John C. Wright and Vox Day are awful human beings who I would not even consider honoring with an award, and several of the other works were published by Vox Day's own small press (through which he publishes his own and some of Wright's work).

Post by **SerScot** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:23 pm

Ann Leckie should win again for best novel. I'm a Jim Butcher fan but I've never really seen his stuff as Hugo worthy. I enjoy it but it is popcorn. Does that make sense?

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:26 pm

I'm sure I'll end up reading that Kevin J Anderson book eventually. The seven book series it follows was fun. Not Hugo material, for sure. It was a fun, not too complex, well fleshed out story. Av had mentioned the premise of the first book, which sounded interesting enough.

Post by **SerScot** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:57 pm

Kevin Anderson wrote the non-existant contiuation of one of my favorite Sci-Fi series. I refuse to read the man ever again.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:21 pm

Can't give him ALL the blame.

Anyway, not like you're missing out on anything extraordinary. But there's certainly worse stuff out there.

Post by **Orlion** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:09 pm

Read up on the slates to see what the big deal was (I have not read any John C Wright and only know him to be a fan of A E VanVogt, which is relevant later in this post).

The problem seems to be that they want to "preserve" science fiction/fantasy from "social-justice warriors"... that somehow, the increased presence of these voices will prevent the propagation of "classic" sci-fi/fantasy or how it should be done.

But the type of fiction they write is boring. It's all been done, and, having read a couple of works by these SJW, I've immensely enjoyed the fresh perspective, new technique, and different cultural references. Seems like they are fighting the evolution of the genre they're in.

In any event, I've got my copy of Ancillary Justice and Ancillary Sword and will purchase the Goblin Emperor. I also got the Mirror Empire and will be reading that. If nothing else, we can vote with economics!

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:19 pm

Those are some great books you've picked up. Enjoy.

If anyone's interested, this is what the Hugo Awards ballot would look like if you take out all the bloc voting nominees. Note though that I'm pretty sure the Dramatic Presentation awards would have looked almost exactly the same without the bloc voting influence.

Post by **aliantha** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:14 pm

Yeah, I noticed that they weren't picking a fight with the drama nominees -- just the books and stuff.

Scalzi had an interesting post on his blog about voting for this mess. Seems you can actually vote for NO AWARD in any category. He wasn't actually advocating that people do it, but he did make significant mention of the fact that it's possible to do.

Guaranteed after this debacle, the nominating rules will change so that this sort of thing can't happen again. Until these yahoos figure out an end-run around the new-and-improved rules, that is.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:44 pm

I don't see how you can prevent this without some sort of major change to who is eligible to nominate, and that would mean closing off the Hugos in a way that's probably not good for the awards. Otherwise, how do you stop someone nominating something, and determine their reasons for doing so?

The only other way to fix things is to somehow encourage a massive increase in participation at the nominating stage, especially in the short fiction categories.

As for the voting, a number of people are advocating for placing No Award above everything that was part of the slate, as a gesture to show that their tactic for gaming the ballot is unacceptable. I will probably be putting No Award high up on most categories myself (and leaving plenty of blank spaces).

Whether even a single short fiction Hugo Award is given out this year may depend on the mass of voters who vote without being aware of this whole kerfuffle.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:57 pm

Decided this needed its own topic, so did some juggling around. I had to move and edit my original post to get it right, so I've now reposted the ballot in the original thread.

Let's talk about some positives, briefly.

It's great to see Orphan Black recognised on the ballot again; it's not the episode I picked (I nominated the penultimate episode, "Things Which Have Never Yet Been Done", as I kinda found the finale a bit silly), but the show is worth it's place on there.

The Graphic Story ballot is amazing. Four really good, strong nominees - Saga is a permanent fixture on awards lists now for good reason; Rat Queens is great; Ms Marvel is just perfect; and Sex Criminals is smart and funny as hell.

Post by **Orlion** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:20 am

aliantha wrote: Scalzi had an interesting post on his blog about voting for this mess. Seems you can actually vote for NO AWARD in any category. He wasn't actually advocating that people do it, but he did make significant mention of the fact that it's possible to do.

Scalzi seemed more interested in educating and calming people down. He re-iterated his faith in the system and offered a solution to those who didn't want to vote for John C Wright in the novella section (I mean, seriously? That's ridiculous. There's no way he's that good a writer)

Guaranteed after this debacle, the nominating rules will change so that this sort of thing can't happen again. Until these yahoos figure out an end-run around the new-and-improved rules, that is.

I agree with Murrin, nothing will change. I would add this is how democracy works and is in part what caused the US Civil War. The main thing that needs to happen is that the opposing base needs to be energized much like how the Sad Puppies energize their base. It is very easy to register to vote, and only costs forty dollars per year.

Post by **Avatar** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:53 am

Fist and Faith wrote:I'm sure I'll end up reading that Kevin J Anderson book eventually. The seven book series it follows was fun. Not Hugo material, for sure. It was a fun, not too complex, well fleshed out story. Av had mentioned the premise of the first book, which sounded interesting enough.

A sequel trilogy to Seven Suns? Yeah, I'll read it, although I'll probably wait for them all. Good world building.

--A

Post by **SerScot** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:45 am

I will not read the man who's been humping Frank Herbert's corpse for more than a decade.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:42 pm

So then you'll think it over?

Post by **Avatar** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:34 am

SerScot wrote:I will not read the man who's been humping Frank Herbert's corpse for more than a decade.

Blame Brian.

--A

Post by **SerScot** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:08 am

Brian didn't do the writting even if he gave permission.

Post by **Avatar** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:09 am

I would call it solicitation more than permission. (Personally, I've never read any of them.

)

--A

Post by **Orlion** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:48 pm

I've always been told that the Dune series started sucking waaaay before Brian and Kevin got their greasy paws on it

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

2015 Hugo Awards Discussion

2015 Hugo Awards Discussion