Star Wars - The Force Awakens

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:41 pm

True dat.

Post by **ussusimiel** » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:07 pm

Saw this over the weekend. I've never been much of a SW fan so had no expectations. It's definitely better than the prequels, and like some have said upthread, it feels more like a reboot rather than a continuation. It was mostly good fun and the new cast and characters are very solid indeed. Some of the plotting felt very obvious and I definitely felt kicked out of the movie a few times by stuff that happened and what felt like glaring inconsistencies (but which may be explained in the next film).

Even for a non-SW fan some of the stuff in the film felt like it was just there for merchandising purposes, but that would never be the case, would it?

u.

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:14 pm

ussusimiel wrote:what felt like glaring inconsistencies

What things struck you as inconsistencies?

Post by **ussusimiel** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:04 pm

There were a number of things, Hashi, not necessarily plot holes or things that may not be eventually explained, but rather things that jarred with me when they happened. For example:

Spoiler

- the two lightsaber fights with Kylo Ren. I know that there were always going to be lightsaber fights, but in both cases the improbability of Finn and Rey (regardless of their likely Force abilities) being able to withstand Ren for an instant (I know Finn didn't last long) immediately jarred with me.

- the casual destruction of the Republic home world (this may have been the the first ever human gigadeath event I have seen in a film). (As an aside, just how exactly did the beam get to the planet? It seemed to happen almost instantly, yet the physics of the whole thing seemed a bit iffy to me.)

- the, again, casual survival of Finn and Poe from what looked like a totally out of control TIE fighter crash. I know that these movies are pitched mostly at a YA audience, but this was child-level stuff.

- the unbelievable ease with which Captain Phasma gives up the goods to Poe and Finn (now maybe Finn used the Force and we'll see this in flashback (maybe this will happen with the TIE fighter crash as well), but in this film it really seemed anomalous).

And there were quite a few others. 'Inconsistency' may not be the most apt word, but definitely stuff kept jarring for me in a way that made the viewing experience uneven at best. It might be better for a fan with lots more background knowledge, but for a relatively experienced SF person like myself it was a fairly regular effect.

u.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:33 am

Fist and Faith wrote:
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Spoiler
What would be worse, abandoning Rey on Jakku or letting Snoke get hold of her?
Spoiler
He should've taken her with him.

The First Rule of Existence: Powers Converge. She was going to be found. Someone that strong in the Force? Strong enough to, without any training whatsoever, resist Ren? Ren, who is, presumably the second most powerful Bad Guy; who destroyed the new Jedi Order that Luke was forming; who Luke was apparently unable to defeat, and ran from? No way she wasn't going to be found. Even if she wasn't hidden away on the same planet that the final part of the map was hidden away on. So yeah, leave Rey to the clutches of Snoke and Ren.

It would have been far better to take her to this hidden location, where he could train her - until she began training him - and they could have fought together when Snoke and Ren eventually found them. They're stupid lucky that they have that chance now.

Spoiler

Ren had to have been trained. Maybe her memories were repressed until until she came in contact with Luke's lightsabre. Maybe that's why Sith Lord Gollum couldn't sense her.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:26 am

Spoiler

As far as the TIE fighter crash - Finn ejected. He was in his seat with a parachite behind him when he woke up.

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:22 am

Spoiler

Don't forget that when Kylo meets up with Finn he has already been shot by a blaster; trained or not, he is serious pain. Finn, having had some weapons training, is able to hold his own for a little bit only because of Kylo having already been shot. Rey defeats him only because she lets herself go to the Force; it is guiding her actions, not her.

As far as the new-and-improved Super Death Star is concerned...well, if we are going to suspend disbelief long enough to accept lightsabers and spaceships then we have to suspend disbelief long enough to accept that a planet-sized machine can drain an entire star and subsequently blow up several other planets all at once. If the Empire managed to rebuild enough of a Death Star to have it fully weaponized while its superstructure was incomplete in only a few years then we have to allow for the fact that the First Order managed to build a significantly bigger one in nearly 30 years.

I suspect most problems with the film can be boiled down to one thing: people went in to see the film knowing what they expected to see and were unable to set aside their personal filters; thus, when the movie isn't exactly what they think it should have been they wind up disappointed. Movie watchers should never sit down in the seat with a head full of preconceived notions as to what the film "should" be; rather, they should clear their minds and encounter the story the screenwriter and director are presenting. We can nit-pick any movie after the fact and find ways in which it could have been made better or things which would have made more sense but ultimately that robs us of the enjoyment of the movie itself.

Post by **JIkj fjds j** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:53 pm

ussusimiel wrote:
Spoiler
- the two lightsaber fights with Kylo Ren. I know that there were always going to be lightsaber fights, but in both cases the improbability of Finn and Rey (regardless of their likely Force abilities) being able to withstand Ren for an instant (I know Finn didn't last long) immediately jarred with me.

Although the lightsaber fights didn't jar my viewing, what did strike me was Rey's fighting technique. It looked very much like the way Darth Sidious moved and used his lightsaber, when he fought Yoda.
Maybe I'd imagined it, but then again, maybe it was choreographed deliberately.

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:49 am

Rune wrote:Rey's fighting technique. It looked very much like the way Darth Sidious moved and used his lightsaber

That is a fascinating assessment that I did not make. It could be coincidental since she was merely letting herself go to the Force or, if examined differently and that path followed a little, could mean a frighteningly shocking revelation in Episode VIII.

Post by **ussusimiel** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:37 am

dANdeLION wrote:
Spoiler
Ren had to have been trained. Maybe her memories were repressed until until she came in contact with Luke's lightsabre. Maybe that's why Sith Lord Gollum couldn't sense her.

This is a very good point and would actually explain a lot.

Spoiler

And it would also explain why it jarred, because at the start of each of the other two trilogies an untrained Anakin and Luke were found and eventually trained. The set-up here looks the same, but is actually different in an important way.

Thanks, dAN!

u.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:56 am

So, is Lando gonna show up in the next episode?

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:05 am

dANdeLION wrote:So, is Lando gonna show up in the next episode?

If my suspicions become confirmed he will have a vested interest in showing up to help out.

Post by **wayfriend** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:54 pm

For what it's worth, I liked it. It felt like Star Wars, but amped up, which pleased me. If you ask me, I think that the "reused" plot was a good way to connect the movie to the other one from forty years ago; sure, you kept groaning and saying yabbut ... but you also kept remembering.

The only thing that I thought was lame was: why would anyone go into hiding, and leave a cryptic map to ones location behind? Odd, that.

Loved seeing Skellig Michael at the end.

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:21 pm

wayfriend wrote: The only thing that I thought was lame was: why would anyone go into hiding, and leave a cryptic map to ones location behind? Odd, that.

"Vague visions of the future" is probably the best explanation. When the student is ready the master will appear...or, in this case, the path to the master will appear.

I am uncertain what event caused R2 to wake up, though. A certain combination of words? Detecting Luke's lightsaber, an object which would not resurface until the time was right?

Post by **JIkj fjds j** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:33 pm

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:I am uncertain what event caused R2 to wake up, though. A certain combination of words? Detecting Luke's lightsaber, an object which would not resurface until the time was right?[/color]

It might be something as simple as a timer-switch in R2's circuitry.

There were just too many flukes, chance meetings, glaring coincidences and occurrences, for there to be anything other than a higher influence at work.

Maybe Luke has found a way to communicate directly with the Midi-chlorians - with the help of Qi-gon, Obi, Anikin, Yoda, etc - and can set in motion a fixed chain of events.
Now wouldn't that be a cool thing to teach the kids!

CP-3O might also have been instrumental in switching on R2. Albeit, didn't he slap the droid across the dome with his new arm! Uncharacteristic of him, I might add!

Post by **wayfriend** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:13 pm

Having just seen it, it seemed to me that R2-D2 woke up from the news of one of these things happening: the death planet was destroyed; something (I won't say) had happened to Han; Something (I won't say) had happened to Kylo Ren (the disciple linked to Luke's hiding in the first place); Rey had come into her Force powers; someone found Luke's light saber. They all happened together, so it's hard to say which. But my bet is placed on light saber. It's all very krill-like.

Post by **ItisWritten** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:10 am

IIRC, didn't Darth Vader experience a holographic representation of the Emperor in Empire? And wasn't that Emperor just as tall as Snoke?

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:45 pm

The holographic projection was a large, disembodied head and this serves as our visual clue that this person is not human (or no longer fully human).

Post by **JIkj fjds j** » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:05 pm

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:The holographic projection was a large, disembodied head and this serves as our visual clue that this person is not human (or no longer fully human).

You could almost be talking about the film Prometheus ... almost, but not quite.
In that movie there was a theme running through it that had something to do with smoking. Not sure how to go about defining this in greater detail but it may even run complimentary to the character of Snoke.

Post by **Avatar** » Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:12 am

Ok, finally got around to watching this. First impressions...haven't read the thread yet...

I didn't hate it. I could reconcile some elements to the extended universe...the First Order could be the Imperial Remnants. It happened outside the New Republic. One of Han and Leia's children did fall to the dark side eventually.

But damn...could they really not come up with a new plot-line? Seems like every major event from the original trilogy was rehashed...the trench runs, the super weapon, sneaking down to take out the shields, wtf?

Off to read the thread.

--A

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Star Wars - The Force Awakens